HBO Real Sports- Down Turn in Golf

[Keith Grande]

Most golf courses have survived by being exclusionary, I don't think they ever worried about it not being "in vougue" with the general populace.

[Mark Bourgeois]

My son is dying to see Squash be elected as an Olympic sport, but I think to myself that Judo, Wrestling, Squash and other "niche sports" are "right sized" and golf needs to compress.

Wrestling is the 6th most-popular boys high school sport in the nation and the second most-popular individual sport (after track and field). It is roughly 365 times more popular than judo. I couldn't find statistics for squash to give you a comparison. 

[Garland Bayley]

... I have seen studies on this and rolling the ball back hurts everybody--shorter hitters hit it shorter and longer hitters still hit it longer so to think that it will have a positive impact on weaker players is misguided. ...

What the heck does this mean? Everyone knows that longer hitters hit it farther than shorter hitters. You don't need any study to know that the difference between the length of the shot will decrease with a ball roll back. The biggest study of all, the history of golf, shows that the previous ball produced a smaller difference.

[Matthew Lloyd]

I'm with Mr. De Toro on this debate about technology and equipment upgrades helping to grow the game. I can't think of a single innovation in the design of balls, clubs, clothing, etc. that has had anything but a positive impact on the sport. Casual players want to have the thrill of hitting long tee shots and a reduced flight ball would be a major impediment to that.

On a broader level, I also think continuing to grow the game is very important.  When I look around on golf courses where I'm playing, I don't see too many guys my age.  That may not be a major problem now, but in 20 years it will be.  And realistically, who is going to start playing at age 40 and become an avid golfer? Even if guys in their teens and 20s don't play a ton right away, we at least have to find ways to get them hooked on 5-10 rounds a year so they have a foundation to build on.

[Garland Bayley]

... Casual players want to have the thrill of hitting long tee shots and a reduced flight ball would be a major impediment to that.
...

Casual players play whatever ball they find and have no idea whether they got reduced ball flight from it or not. Casual players are thrilled to hit the ball on the sweet spot once in a while, and could care less whether they were using a reduced ball flight ball or not.

[Chris DeToro]

Not only would casual players not have the length off the tee but even shorter hitters who play a lot will suddenly be hitting much longer clubs into greens which will cause further frustration and lead to more people leaving the game.  Golf's hard enough as it is, why make it harder?  

... I have seen studies on this and rolling the ball back hurts everybody--shorter hitters hit it shorter and longer hitters still hit it longer so to think that it will have a positive impact on weaker players is misguided. ...

What the heck does this mean? Everyone knows that longer hitters hit it farther than shorter hitters. You don't need any study to know that the difference between the length of the shot will decrease with a ball roll back. The biggest study of all, the history of golf, shows that the previous ball produced a smaller difference.

How so?  Please show me the data that suggests this.

[Matthew Lloyd]

Overall I think retail golfers pay more attention to equipment and accessories than we think.  Many golfers that I know who fit in this category are often intent on "looking the part" of a better golfer and if anything tend to spend more money than they should on balls, clubs, etc. And since their swings and fundamentals are lacking, if they seek out inferior equipment/tools then they will lag even further behind.

[Garland Bayley]

Not only would casual players not have the length off the tee but even shorter hitters who play a lot will suddenly be hitting much longer clubs into greens which will cause further frustration and lead to more people leaving the game.  Golf's hard enough as it is, why make it harder?  

...

You seem not to know that this topic has been discussed to death on this website. Most recently
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57757.0.html
You seem not to know that the physics of ball spin means that your "shorter" hitters have actually lost length with the modern ball, while the tour pros have been gaining 30 yards.

[William_G]

Why does the game of golf have to grow? Is it important that there are courses out there that you will never play? What is the difference between golf and any other product that lives and dies by supply and demand?

I assume that there will be plenty of great golf courses for me to play for the rest of my life.

+1

the industrial age has been all about growth, yet some things are unsustainable

as time has become more important, golf has become less sustainable for everyone

[jeffwarne]

I'm with Mr. De Toro on this debate about technology and equipment upgrades helping to grow the game. I can't think of a single innovation in the design of balls, clubs, clothing, etc. that has had anything but a positive impact on the sport. Casual players want to have the thrill of hitting long tee shots and a reduced flight ball would be a major impediment to that.

Matthew,
What evidence do you have that the innovation of say a titanium driver or a Pro V 1 has had "nothing but a positive impact on the sport"
Given that participation has dropped since the advent of the ProV 1, I anxiously await the answer.

and don't even get me started on the clothes it used to be just the Europeans that looked silly
Grown(and some more than others ) men in white belts, orange slacks, and skintight fitted polyester shirts

[Matthew Lloyd]

I'm with Mr. De Toro on this debate about technology and equipment upgrades helping to grow the game. I can't think of a single innovation in the design of balls, clubs, clothing, etc. that has had anything but a positive impact on the sport. Casual players want to have the thrill of hitting long tee shots and a reduced flight ball would be a major impediment to that.

Matthew,
What evidence do you have that the innovation of say a titanium driver or a Pro V 1 has had "nothing but a positive impact on the sport"
Given that participation has dropped since the advent of the ProV 1, I anxiously await the answer.

and don't even get me started on the clothes it used to be just the Europeans that looked silly
Grown(and some more than others ) men in white belts, orange slacks, and skintight fitted polyester shirts

I think participation in golf has dropped in recent years for reasons totally unrelated to all of the improvements that have been made in the game.  In the last 20 years we've seen an increase in elite public courses that can rival the best private clubs and an upgrade in technology that allows for better play, and those of us who play the game can I think all agree that the experience of actually competing in the sport is better today than it was in 1994, i.e. these equipment upgrades have enabled us all to play better and hit better shots. 

Side note: I'm still using my first set of irons, which date back to 1992.  I've upgraded my woods and putter, but otherwise am totally old school, so I'm not shilling for new equipment. I don't even think Ben Hogan could hit good shots with my clubs.

But I just don't understand how any of these improvements could possibly drive people away from the game?

Put another way -- what potential golfer out there is saying "I'd play more if only I could use more limited technology."  No retail golfer whose best drive goes 265 yards at most is burned out on the equipment upgrades.

I think there are several sociological reasons why less and less golf is being played, but that is a separate issue entirely. 

[Garland Bayley]

...
But I just don't understand how any of these improvements could possibly drive people away from the game?
...

Cost

Obvious trend towards Veblen goods.

[William_G]

Side note: I'm still using my first set of irons, which date back to 1992. 

must be Ping Eye 2s

[Adam Clayman]

How stupid do the Mannies look if reports in the demise of the sport are true?

Of course, It's your typical corporate manipulating bullshee. HBO is not to be trusted.