[BCowan]

The 13th at my home course (muni to some) is very much a problem hole and not liked by many members.  It is the quintessential arboretum hole.  Just left of the fairway the ground contours hard down into the forest/treeline.  If the fairway is missed by two yards to left during the summer the ball is gone.  Missing the fairway to the right is a little better.  I have seen archies like Mr Dye wrap bunkers around ponds.  My question is why not around wood lots?  These photos were taken in November so they don't show the line of woodlot and the 25 trees or so that would be needed to be removed to create a 50 yard buffer bunker.  I really think that it would encourage more players to hit driver off the tee and less lost balls destroying the occasional good round.  Thoughts?

 

looking back toward the tee

[Adam Clayman]

Containment bunkers, like the one's I think you're describing aren't often done very well.  Probably because they have to built up, against the grade.

I'm sure there's plenty of examples, where well meaning committee chairs, justify this type of disfigurement. The fact that it's a muni, should be inconsequential. Firm ground as a hazard is so much better than the hand of man.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

One of the problems would be the ball coming to rest against the low (left) lip of the containment bunker, so to make it play as you would like, you'd have to build up the low left edge to allow the ball to roll back to the bottom.  So the bunker would have a bathtubby appearance.  At my home course we have a containment bunker behind one of our greens with a steep fall away where a shot one yard long or one hop off the back would be lost in some thick vegetation at the base.  The bummer is you are often against the back lip with no choice but to flick it forward to the middle of the bunker and then play out from there.  I guess it's better than a lost ball.

[Pete_Pittock]

    Much of the fairway bunkering at Fought's Reserve Vineyard course fits your containment bunkering concept. If you flew over them your ball was usually lost in dense undergrowth. The bunkering was a welcome half shot penalty rather than stroke and distance.
    As the pace slowed, and balls lost translated into negative comments about the course the underlayer was cleared out. This brought out the environmental bureau which put more restrictions on our wetlands because we had destroyed wildlife habitat.   Now we have containment bunkering guarding thin forests to little purpose except to increase maintenance costs.

[Grant Saunders]

Ben

A bunker or bunkers along the left would face all sorts of issues with leaves and tree roots. Plus I think it would take some pretty substantial earth move to fit them in or you would have some pretty major eyesore.

Can the fairway not be mowed a little further to the right and the grass along the left be kept a bit longer?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Maybe they should just move the giant hand hovering above the hole over to the low side, on the left. The hand could catch balls before they bound into the woods. As for the hole itself, the "solution" if there is one is not bunkers but probably a bulldozer.

[Sean_A]

Is there some reason the hole isn't routed further right?  Otherwise, I would explore a par 3 as an option.  The current set-up looks like it plays dreadfully and a containment bunker is asking for maintenance issues. 

Ciao

[Paul Gray]

Along with moving the fairway to the right, is there any reason not to have a wholesale removal of the trees? Then some wing/cross bunkers could be put in down the left without the same maintenance concerns and the hole would have a cape element to it without the unnecessary use of water.

[Pete Garvey]

Maybe they should just move the giant hand hovering above the hole over to the low side, on the left. The hand could catch balls before they bound into the woods. As for the hole itself, the "solution" if there is one is not bunkers but probably a bulldozer.

A chainsaw works well in this situation as well as a bulldozer for rerouting.  IMO.

[BCowan]

One of the problems would be the ball coming to rest against the low (left) lip of the containment bunker, so to make it play as you would like, you'd have to build up the low left edge to allow the ball to roll back to the bottom.  So the bunker would have a bathtubby appearance.  At my home course we have a containment bunker behind one of our greens with a steep fall away where a shot one yard long or one hop off the back would be lost in some thick vegetation at the base.  The bummer is you are often against the back lip with no choice but to flick it forward to the middle of the bunker and then play out from there.  I guess it's better than a lost ball.

I like this, it was what I was thinking. I apologize for not using containment bunker, the word escaped me last night.  I'm playing later today and I'll try and remember to get a better photo so you can see the line of the tree lot and the 25 trees that are in the rough.  My thought was the containment bunker would have to be used to justify cutting down 25 trees.  The slope right to left is pronounced slightly more than the photo shows.  The bunker would prob be susceptible to erosion/washouts with heavy rains.  The question I ask myself is if you cut down the 25 trees, would it improve the turf quality enough to minimize the slope of the hill and shots just slightly off the fairway from being lost.  I will ask my keeper friend who is suppose to join me today what he thinks.

''Along with moving the fairway to the right, is there any reason not to have a wholesale removal of the trees? Then some wing/cross bunkers could be put in down the left without the same maintenance concerns and the hole would have a cape element to it without the unnecessary use of water.''

+1, except I don't think the fairway needs to be moved to the right, but I will ponder that today.  

[BCowan]

''Turf'' was lucky that it rained in the morning and his hybrid off the tee was findable.  Round killer the hole is as he was even par at this point.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Seems like you'd need to get rid of that "halo ring" of trees to get some rough going. And it seems like the ground levels a bit inside that halo ring.

The hole is vaguely reminiscent of the 8th at The Addington. Man, you want to talk about a card wrecker of a hole.

[Greg Tallman]

Perhaps removing the trees in the foreground of the more recent photos while leaving what appears to be three or more that would still impede a shot hit left. Maybe a doable shot and probably easily found and advanced while requiring a very good shot to get to the green?

[Aaron McMaster]

''Turf'' was lucky that it rained in the morning and his hybrid off the tee was findable.  Round killer the hole is as he was even par at this point.

Ben, I agree it was a lucky find over there, not sure the trace amount of rain you had in the morning helped though.   Radrick is a very cool place that most don't know about but and it's a big but, this is what happens when a place has been managed by a group of how do I put it politely....tree hugging crazies for 50 years.  It could be fantastic but they need to employ a serious group of lumberjacks there.  The vistas could be spectacular.

The 13th could just be cleaned up on the left by removing all the scrub and a couple of larger trees.  It would also make a player contemplate the risk of hitting a driver over hybrid or long iron off the tee.  Cross/containment bunker would look great but it's not necessary to fix the hole.

[Thomas Dai]

Bunkers get into players heads.

You could be nice and place a small bunker with visible sand on the left side of the fairway just short of the top of the ridge, players will probably be inclined to play more to the right from the tee if you do.

Alternatively, you could place a small bunker with visible sand on the right side just short of the top of the ridge so players are more likely to hit down the left side. In which case you pay a young kid to sit in the trees on the left to collect and re-sell all the balls that go that way and split the proceeds! Jusy kidding!

atb

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