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ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2013, 06:38:24 PM »
Timber Point Club (NLE - Great River, Long Island NY) was taken under eminent domain by Suffolk County in the mid 60's when the club ran into financial difficulties.

An investor group was organized to buy the club and land from its current owners which would have preserved the club and its routing (was thought to be top 10 or 20 in the US at the time).Instead. thee county seized it to provide a public course and didn't have the decency to leave it intact. Instead they carved up the course and turned it into a snoozer.
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2013, 06:41:13 PM »
There are to many courses in the world today.  Let's not discount the benefits of culling the herd.
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2013, 07:20:48 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 06:41:13 PM

There are to many courses in the world today.  Let's not discount the benefits of culling the herd.

JakaB

Are you sure that there aren't too few golfers  :D
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2013, 07:34:24 PM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on December 08, 2013, 07:20:48 PM
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 06:41:13 PM

There are to many courses in the world today.  Let's not discount the benefits of culling the herd.

JakaB

Are you sure that there aren't too few golfers  :D

Not sure but I can promise you that there is no shortage of children in need of a quality public education. 
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2013, 08:06:42 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on December 08, 2013, 07:20:48 PM
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 06:41:13 PM

There are to many courses in the world today.  Let's not discount the benefits of culling the herd.

JakaB

Are you sure that there aren't too few golfers  :D

Not sure but I can promise you that there is no shortage of children in need of a quality public education. 

It's not the physical building that's preventing children from getting a quality public education
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2013, 08:16:30 PM »
A golfer can not lay the failure of American education on teachers or genetics without either being elitist or racist, or both.
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Steve Burrows

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2013, 10:06:24 PM »
Best I can tell, it is somewhat unfashionable on this site to agree with John Kavanaugh, but he's making an awful lot of sense over his last few posts.
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...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
               -Rene Descartes

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2013, 10:09:41 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 08:16:30 PM
A golfer can not lay the failure of American education on teachers or genetics without either being elitist or racist, or both.

JakaB,

Whatever you're imbibing or smoking.......... Please STOP

Your replies are beyond decipherable  ;D
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2013, 10:10:27 PM »
Steve,

You too ?
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BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2013, 10:21:44 PM »
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Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2013, 11:27:50 PM »
Quote from: Dan_Callahan on December 08, 2013, 10:01:21 AM
Kelo v New London is one of the worst Court decisions of modern times and goes against individual liberties that America is all about.


And what happened after Kelo; many (44 as far as I can determine) states made laws curtailing or limiting eminent domain use similar to Kelo.  Why would people be so upset that the judges allowed the people, through the legislatures, to determine how to deal with this issue.
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“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2013, 12:15:01 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 07:34:24 PM
...quality public education. 

More and more an oxymoron. 
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John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2013, 12:21:10 AM »
Quote from: Jim Nugent on December 09, 2013, 12:15:01 AM
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 07:34:24 PM
...quality public education. 

More and more an oxymoron. 

You mean like government intelligence?
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Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2013, 04:49:56 AM »
John, yes, along with "temporary tax increase"... "Congressional ethics"... and "Microsoft Works." 
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Mike Sweeney

Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2013, 07:08:53 AM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on December 08, 2013, 06:11:10 PM

Money and power can be a dangerous combination in the wrong hands. [/color]


It can also be a powerful and constructive thing too. Gates Foundation, Ford Foundation, as mentioned by Jaka, look at some of the public works projects by Robert Moses that get you to and from Long Island on your golf trips:

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/1218.html

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 10:34:30 PM
The benefits of government public works have played as large a role in the greatness of the American experiment as individual property rights. Eminent Domain is simply a bridge connecting the two.

Capitalism is supposed to be a little messy with a little corruption. Legislatures then make adjustments. Many companies fail, some flourish. Some people act like jerks and they get called out on GCA, and some people do the right thing. If we take the Pat Mucci view of the world, we let the New London Supreme Court case set precedent for all. Well if I read it correctly, 44 states have made adjustments to that case at the local level.

The system adjusts and its not perfect, but its still probably the best system out there, warts and all.
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2013, 07:16:52 AM »
Quote from: Mike Sweeney on December 09, 2013, 07:08:53 AM
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on December 08, 2013, 06:11:10 PM

Money and power can be a dangerous combination in the wrong hands. [/color]


It can also be a powerful and constructive thing too. Gates Foundation, Ford Foundation, as mentioned by Jaka, look at some of the public works projects by Robert Moses that get you to and from Long Island on your golf trips:

Mike,

That's called, "the right hands"

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/1218.html

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 10:34:30 PM
The benefits of government public works have played as large a role in the greatness of the American experiment as individual property rights. Eminent Domain is simply a bridge connecting the two.

Capitalism is supposed to be a little messy with a little corruption. Legislatures then make adjustments. Many companies fail, some flourish. Some people act like jerks and they get called out on GCA, and some people do the right thing. If we take the Pat Mucci view of the world, we let the New London Supreme Court case set precedent for all. Well if I read it correctly, 44 states have made adjustments to that case at the local level.

The system adjusts and its not perfect, but its still probably the best system out there, warts and all.
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Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2013, 09:18:12 AM »
Quote from: John Kirk on December 09, 2013, 12:21:10 AM
Quote from: Jim Nugent on December 09, 2013, 12:15:01 AM
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 08, 2013, 07:34:24 PM
...quality public education. 

More and more an oxymoron. 

You mean like government intelligence?

Yes, the reason so many people overpay for an average house in the suburbs, so they can be in a bad school district.  And why so many of those families are choosing to send their kids to those bad public schools rather than paying a bit more for those parochial and other private schools.  And why about 70% of students in Ivy colleges come from public schools.
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“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2013, 11:36:22 AM »
...
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 01:45:23 AM by John Kirk »
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2013, 12:56:01 PM »
Talks are ongoing concerning the purchase of the course by the School District. Note the recent comparable sale of a golf course-

"The letter suggested using the sale of Wood’s Golf Center for $27.5 million to Albert Einstein Healthcare Network in 2010. That property was 82 acres, according to the Philadelphia Business Journal, 32 acres more than Meadow Brook."

It's all about $$$$ but it's not a good thing that a neat little course and place will go by the wayside. Wood's Golf was one too.



http://www.pottsmerc.com/general-news/20131213/documents-reveal-ongoing-talks-to-buy-phoenixville-golf-course
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2013, 01:23:06 PM »
Steve,

That would put the equivalent value on 52 acres at $ 17,439,024.40

What was the school district offering ?
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2013, 02:08:10 PM »
Pat,

The school district's last offer was 5M without prejudice to the assessed value of about 3.5M. The owners were talking 8M before but apparently now have an appraiser involved. Big difference in the location between the Wood's property and the Meadows property.
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2013, 02:28:40 PM »
Quote from: Jim Nugent on December 09, 2013, 04:49:56 AM
John, yes, along with "temporary tax increase"...
. . . . 

Not to mention "temporary dues increase"!
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2014, 12:18:18 PM »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not quite par: Eminent Domain and golf courses
« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2014, 10:03:19 AM »
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection
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