The Stonewalls and French Creek

[TEPaul]

Across some hundreds of acres of highly rolling former farmfields in very rural Elverson Pa are now three courses immediately contiguous to one another that are very interesting and far removed from the norm, in my opinion.

Two by Doak (the original Stonewall had Gil Hanse as the semi partner and primary shaper), Stonewall North (just opening) by Renaissance and French Creek (just opening) by Hanse & Co.

Each course has a very above normal factor of the unusual, the controversial and off-beat in architecture both in routing, in detail, in concept, in architectural features of all kinds and obviously in playability.

For a golf architectural afficionado and analyst there's a good deal to study and consider now on these some hundreds of acres of former highly rolling farmland.

Not to be confused with architectural necessity but the setting of all three of these courses is truly stunning!

[Matt_Ward]

TEPaul:

We agree!

Had the pleasure of a guided tour of French Creek by Eric Pevoto last week and the layout design by Gil Hanse is quite appealing --both from a strategic sense and the beauty of the property.

I also believe that the uphill par-4 13th hole will be one that many will not forget after playing it!

[Dan Herrmann]

French Creek has turned out to be even more fun/challenging than I'd imagined after walking the course a dozen times.  

#13 is indeed quite a hole.  I've been close in 2, but there's a very sneaky green waiting for you when you get there.  My wife has been in that left-hand 15' deep bunker, and needed to exit sideways to get out.

#14 is downright fun - you have a semi blind drop shot to a green in the forest.  Miss left, and you're toast.  It's actually not as difficult a shot as I'd thought, but it keeps you very engaged.

#15 (see the earlier thread on good short par 4s) can be played with a driver or a 7 iron.  I've parred it with both.  What a great hole.....

#17 is an awesome 3 par.  Hanse's team has built a great hole here.  The HUGE cross bunker really only serves to provide an optical challenge, as it doesn't come into play if you're halfway decent.  There are also a number of small hillside bunkers on the right up to the hole.  The best safe shot is to the right side of the green, but to get it close, you'd probably want to try to draw it in from the left.

Back to #11 - I love the stonewall about 20 yards in front of the green.  I was stymed by it yesterday because I foolishly hit a 5-wood on my second shot, and probably hit the wall, which is semi-blind from way back in the fairway.  Obviously, a 5 or 6 iron is a better play.  I think the wall is a great way of making it a real 3-shotter for the non-pros.

We also have one of the best practice ranges I've used, and a new short-game practice area is being built.   The front nine is coming along great during the grow-in.

Lastly, this is a great walking course, something not seen too often nowadays.

Also keep a lookout for French Creek on Keystone Golf with Todd Sadowski, a syndicated TV show broadcast across Pennsylvania and in Youngstown, OH.  
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By the way, Stonewall II looks to be a new Doak classic, at least from the road and the little of it I walked during its construction.  He's incorporated existing stonewalls, and the natural topography to build a visually stunning course.

Elverson - golf mecca of PA?  (don't worry - I'm not serious!)  If you're ever in Elverson, check out Sonny's Italian restrauant - it's very "local" and, well, Elverson-like, but they have great food.

[Tom_Doak]

Dan:

French Creek is a great walking course?  Aren't there 3-4 long green-to-tee walks where you have to cross roads and stuff?

The one advantage I thought the new property at Stonewall had was that we could put everything pretty close together.  I didn't think that was possible at French Creek ... that's why I advised Stonewall to pass on that property when it was available.

[Eric Pevoto]

Tom,

It's definitely a walkable golf course.  Two longer walks:  one 300-350 yard walk through a tunnel between 3 green and 4 tee; another 350-400 yard max walk along the farmroad through the wetlands between 15 green and 16 tee.  They are flattish walks, too.  It's not as if you're trudging up such a climb that you might need to leave a shuttle cart to help the infirmed and plain lazy.

The only other of any more than 40-50 yards is back through the tunnel from 8 green to 9 tee; its no more than 100 yards or so.

Other than that, Gil did a great job keeping the greens and tees close together.  He also handled the few climbs very well.  There are only 2 of any import: 6 covers over 100 feet over about 600 yards.  The thirteenth (across from Stonewall's entrance) covers about 50-60 feet in less than 200 yards.  They're well seperated, and followed by flat to downhill holes.

How important a criteria is walkability in your assessment of a golf course?  Has your impression of Stonewall gone down since the members have decided it's not as walkable as they'd like?

[Rich_M]

Tom:

Only the back nine is open at this time which has been a pleasure to walk.  The course will be at least a 7 on the Doak scale; quite an accomplishment for a second rate piece of property.

[Tom_Doak]

Hey, the little I've seen of French Creek looks great, and there's some really good property in parts of it.

But isn't a 300-400 yard walk considered long?

[TEPaul]

TomD:

What're your feelings about the 18th at Stonewall North--it's strategy, whatever? The vegetation separating the fairway sections was pretty high the other day creating a good deal of blindness--is that the way you want it?

[TEPaul]

TomD:

I also found the 6th green to be extremely interesting--long and narrow and apparently convex with the greenside bunkering, particularly left, separated from the green that much. A very interesting green for a long par 4.

There're many interesting green surfaces at Stonewall North and in excellent variety. Some of the green contours appear to be pretty dramatic in playability (#4!) if and when the greens get up to speed. After seeing all those green contours I had to laugh when I came across the small, round, apparently flat little #9 green--nice change-up!

[Dan Herrmann]

Hey, the little I've seen of French Creek looks great, and there's some really good property in parts of it.

But isn't a 300-400 yard walk considered long?

Do I wish we didn't have a walk of that length?  Sure.  But it's really been a pretty easy walk.  It sounds corny, but there's a lot of great nature to view in there - tons of butterflies, beautiful wildflowers; there are egrets and herons around.  I guess it gives us a chance to "stop and smell the flowers".

[Eric Pevoto]

Dan,

I'd agree.  The walk through the tunnel, on the front nine, is yet to be tested and will be a challenge to pass the "walk in the park" test.  

On the other hand, the walk from 15 to 16 is beautiful and I think plays an important part in the pacing of the golf course.  What I'm seeing, now that we're able to play the course, is that the variety and resulting flow is really a lot of fun!

Tom D,

Sorry to get a little pissy!  With it being so early in its life, I feel the need to defend our place.  Hopefully, you can come by in September.  I'd be thrilled to meet you and show you the golf course.  

By the way, I walked the new Stonewall a few weeks ago, and it really looks like it will be a blast.  The horizon tee shots and rolling greens look to be fun and challenging.  The bunkering is simply beautiful.  It's been fun to watch it grow.  Congrats!