[Neil_Crafter]

In some recent correspondence with Bob Beck, Pasatiempo's former historian, Bob asked me:

"There is body of information coming out of articles about Marion Hollins after 1921 that reveals her growing interest in teaching golf by providing a golf academy (Women's National) with an instructor (Ernest Jones) that included lodging for unescorted women (Women's National, Cypress Pt. and Pasatiempo). My wonder is whether the named courses reflect that intent. 

My question is how would you respond if a client came to you and asked you to select the topography and design an 18 hole golf course whose primary purpose was to teach players how to play the game? Would it be any different than a championship course, a municipal course, etc.?"

I gave him my initial thoughts on what elements might make up a course designed to teach the playing of the game as distinct from one designed for the playing of the game. Can they be and should they be different? And what might be the characteristics of a course whose primary purpose is to teach the playing of the game? Interested to hear people's thoughts, as will Bob.

[jeffwarne]

First and most importantly
Room to swing freely to encourage letting go

Fairway and greenside bunkers used sparingly but occasionally with enough bite to teach strategy and recovery technique
Closely mown areas around the greens to allow runups and teach chipping, but occasionally some rough around greens to practice recovery and provide variety.
Reasonably undulating greens.

err on the shorter side overall, but with at least a couple long 4's a 5 and a 3, so all playing levels could be taught.
a variety of undulations on the fairways on at least a few holes.

at least a couple of holes preferably well and somewhat tightly defined by  trees(or well defined bunkers) to teach and quantify driving skills for better players, but with minimal undergrowth to allow lesser players to stay in the game, preferably with the more forward tees not quite as pinched by trees.

So overall the course would be on the easier/fun side, but there would be areas where the elite players could practice as challenging of a shot as they wanted, but also other areas where the newer players could develop confidence.---preferably in various three hole loops.

Locate the range and learning center in the middle of the course where players could set out in small loops, with the ability to connect and play up to 9 or 18 holes

more as it comes to me

[Bill_McBride]

Pasatiempo would be a tough course for an absolute beginning woman because of the forced carries on 11, 12, 15, 16 and 18.  

I guess they could have just played the front nine!

Cypress Point just has two forced carries but they are daunting!

My wife attended a couple of Peggy Kirk Bell's "Golf-aris," women's instructional programs at Pine Needles.  I know she loved playing there and the teaching was great.  And no forced carries!

[Peter Pallotta]

It's neat that an architectural question was first answered by a top flight golfer and instructor. The thought of a course that encourages beginning golfers to "let go" would never have occurred to me (as it did to Jeff).

I might be remembering wrong, and the courses I learned on weren't 'hard' -- but I don't remember them as particularly easy either, and I don't remember ever being upset about that.  As a beginner I assumed all the trouble I got into was MY fault, caused by my poor choices and/or poor shot-making. (And as I type that, the thought occurs to me that all the trouble I get into is STILL my own fault.)

Neil - my little boy comes out with me sometimes; he's not yet interested in golf, but he likes finishing off my holes by putting out (and god bless him, in his mind he's ALWAYS putting for birdie, no matter how many strokes it took his sorry ass father to get there). But mostly, he likes the surroundings: the more grass to run around in and (sorry to say) bunkers to hide and make sand castles in and (sorry to say) the more ponds he can peer into to look for fish or lost golf balls the better.

I'm not suggesting a course with lots of sand and water; but I AM saying that one important thing is for a beginners' course to be a lovely-looking and pleasant place to be, i.e. a place that a beginner WANTS to come back to, simply because the 'space' is appealing.

Peter

[Mike Nuzzo]

The Old Course or Wolf Point are perfect for learning the game and for the avid player.
Cheers

[Tom_Doak]

First and most importantly
Room to swing freely to encourage letting go

Fairway and greenside bunkers used sparingly but occasionally with enough bite to teach strategy and recovery technique
Closely mown areas around the greens to allow runups and teach chipping, but occasionally some rough around greens to practice recovery and provide variety.
Reasonably undulating greens.

err on the shorter side overall, but with at least a couple long 4's a 5 and a 3, so all playing levels could be taught.
a variety of undulations on the fairways on at least a few holes.

at least a couple of holes preferably well and somewhat tightly defined by  trees(or well defined bunkers) to teach and quantify driving skills for better players, but with minimal undergrowth to allow lesser players to stay in the game, preferably with the more forward tees not quite as pinched by trees.

So overall the course would be on the easier/fun side, but there would be areas where the elite players could practice as challenging of a shot as they wanted, but also other areas where the newer players could develop confidence.---preferably in various three hole loops.

Locate the range and learning center in the middle of the course where players could set out in small loops, with the ability to connect and play up to 9 or 18 holes

more as it comes to me

Sounds more like Royal Melbourne to me ... or the place I was writing about today ... Swinley Forest.

Keep going when you are inspired, Jeff.

[jeffwarne]

First and most importantly
Room to swing freely to encourage letting go

Fairway and greenside bunkers used sparingly but occasionally with enough bite to teach strategy and recovery technique
Closely mown areas around the greens to allow runups and teach chipping, but occasionally some rough around greens to practice recovery and provide variety.
Reasonably undulating greens.

err on the shorter side overall, but with at least a couple long 4's a 5 and a 3, so all playing levels could be taught.
a variety of undulations on the fairways on at least a few holes.

at least a couple of holes preferably well and somewhat tightly defined by  trees(or well defined bunkers) to teach and quantify driving skills for better players, but with minimal undergrowth to allow lesser players to stay in the game, preferably with the more forward tees not quite as pinched by trees.

So overall the course would be on the easier/fun side, but there would be areas where the elite players could practice as challenging of a shot as they wanted, but also other areas where the newer players could develop confidence.---preferably in various three hole loops.

Locate the range and learning center in the middle of the course where players could set out in small loops, with the ability to connect and play up to 9 or 18 holes

more as it comes to me

the three(ish) hole loops would be arranged where maybe for newer players holes #1,2,3 are fairly wide open, shortish and subtle and very sparingly bunkered, but maybe a few fairway undulations thrown in for sidehill lie practice.
Perhaps another loop for better players has the aforementioned tree defined driving corridor/drill area, another hole with a steep bunker or two, and maybe some relatively deep rough to practice recovery and distance control from flier lie situations-

Maybe even some of my pet peeve dreaded "native" well wide of normal play on a wide hole, ON ONE SIDE to provide texture, provide practice from taller grass, and give a better player the ability to perhaps try to hit an imagined  target/preferred area nearer to it.
another loop may have a mix of ability levels.
No tee markers or tees-gang mowed areas where the players tee off where they want-some level-some not

a few functional,even pedestrian holes where confidence can be gained, but several really memorable and or particularly scenic holes that make practical use of whatever landforms/attractive features that are on the property.

During Jr. clinics/camps, parents could play 3-6 hole loops while in proximity to their kids, then join them for more golf of picnic afterward.9see below)

make the range/practice area a friendly and relaxed area, where newer players are welcome and encouraged,with picnic benches and shade trees, water fountains, and maybe even barbecue pits
 (OK visions of Happy Gilmore's happy place did come to mind , but we'll keep this G rated......)
Have pros/good local players/high school kids working on greeting and encouraging people-which will no doubt pay huge benefits for them as well as the facility owners.

On the range lots of short targets 20-100 yards out cut at fairway height for definition and so ballmarks aren't a problem-fun things like a free pizza/pitcher of beer for hitting a ball in the bucket.

Music playing, but not blaring.

an interesting, fun putting green with more than 5 pins located at random distances, not the stock 20 feet apart .
Practice bunkers where a player can hit to short and long targets on the range, and if they skull it they don't kill anyone.

mats OK, but not the generic square ones, but rather the nice, quality,free form ones available and used so that a variety of shots can be practiced even when poor weather/turf make grass impractical to use. Most importantly, seamlessly slipped in amongst grass areas so being on the mats is a pleasureably thing working on the same shots as the grassed areas, not stuck in a corner hitting the same shot off a big rubber tee

as Peter says, make it a place a beginner WANTS to come back to, but also a course that has enough interest that a good player stays interested. Aiken Golf club comes to mind as far as course size, Palmetto's 3 hole upper loop near the clubhouse is perfect for players of all abilities.

[Peter Pallotta]

Oh, and please keep "perched greens with sharp drop-offs" to an absolute minimum.

I watched even the pros struggle with those greens this weekend in Texas; and for me and my pals - some good solid golfers who've played the game well and, in one case all over the world, for decades  -- really have a hard time with those and really dislike them.

I play occasionally with a South African born cinematographer with bad knees from rugby but with a very good swing and a deft short game, and he still complains about a course we played 5 years ago that 'defended itself' with perched greens.  

Nothing demoralizes a beginner more than actually hitting a green, on the fly even, only to watch the ball roll back down the front or drift away off the side.

[Neil_Crafter]

all very interesting responses thankyou, and in particular Peter and Jeff for their detailed thoughts.

Would 18 holes be too much for such a teaching course? Possibly, if as Jeff suggested you routed it in loops of three then 6 holes may be sufficient to get enough different 'learning' opportunities into the holes.

And I think, like Peter, that you would certainly want to limit the number of elevated plateau greens!

[Peter Pallotta]

I was thinking about the perched greens again last night, Neil

A few years ago, there was a course built near Toronto (in Mississauga actually, just about the fastest growing city anywhere). It was built on an old garbarge dump, and while it was being built Mississauga kept growing all around it, and so now it is right in the middle of the huge subdivision and pretty much right in the middle of the city. (It rises a hundred feet or so above the surrounding housing, as it was bult up so high on the old dump). It is municipally run, fairly inexpensive, convenient to get to, and actually quite a fun course. And they really are pitching it, in part, as a 'teaching centre' - i.e. as a place where new golfers are welcome and can take lessons etc. The trouble is, because I guess of the engineering requirements of building on an old dump, almost all the greens are perched up to some degree or another and, with the course being high up like that, shots to those greens are made even harder by the wind. (It's not a long course, but apparently holds its own against top players because of the wind and the perched greens).

It stuck me last night the irony of this -- on the one hand, if new golf courses are going to be built in or close to cities I bet at least some of them might be built on old garbage dumps; it's a terrifc way to use an otherwise unuseable site. And those kinds of municipallty run courses would be perfect as teaching golf courses. But on the other hand, I'm guessing that the engineering requirements of such courses would mean that there couldn't be many/any 'at grade' green sites and that the greens and everything else have to be built up and up....which is not great for beginners.

[Josh Tarble]

Jeff,
I think you are spot on.  The thing about getting any beginner into golf is that it HAS to be fun.  Have drink stations with beer.  Definitely promote walking, maybe allow groups up to 8somes, just stuff to keep it interesting.

I like your idea of no tee markers, but I would say more of a suggestion of different spots on each hole, some longer allowing drivers to be hit and some shorter ones, say as more of an approach shot or par 3s.  Make several different cards.  Maybe the course is only 9 holes, but have 4 or 5 different scorecards printed.

I think the key would be very interesting green complexes.  Side-boards, back-boards, punch-bowls...all features that allow fun shots to be played and allow the beginner a lot of room for error, while still making it challenging.  

Addition:
All that being said, it still has to attract your avid players as well.  That's why it's crucial to have interesting golf as well as being accessible.   What I image would be something like Bandon Preserve, but able to be stretched out to 400 yards or so for someone who wanted to play it that way, plus fairways like Old Macdonald.  Really, something like the Sheep Ranch, but still a bit more structured than that.

[Lou_Duran]

I had access to the nearly perfect "teaching" golf club during my formative years in the game.  Though Tom Doak wasn't terribly impressed with the challenging Scarlet course, in combination with the much easier Grey, Ohio State's golf club was outstanding.  It was extremely inexpensive for students and had nearly everything one needed to learn, develop, and compete.  The only negatives were an indifferent practice range (by today's standards), heavy play, and a men's golf coach who was hostile to students not on the golf team.  The Grey course was very suitable for people aspiring to play recreationally.  The Scarlet course was more of a graduate school, though the ladies and the high-handicappers seemed to prefer playing there by large margins, judging from the tee sheets (I was a starter for a couple quarters).

[Lyne Morrison]

Hi Neil, trust all is well, I see Adelaide has been enjoying an Indian Summer.

Interesting question and some good points noted above. My feeling is the course should be playable and engaging, it should provide variety and joy and, be forgiving for the most part.

The yardage should not be excessive and should reward good effort from the slower swing speed golfer - there is no place for 500 metre par 5's, long 4's or 180 metre par 3's if we are to win the new golfer over. And as Peter mentions, a pleasant environment should not be undervalued - there is an inherent link between the environment, the attraction of the game and the desire to return to play again. Bunkers should provide a manageable option that is not necessarily directed toward the pin of the day in addition to a more challenging aspect that can be tackled as expertise develops.

Bill is correct that women dislike forced carries - particularly higher handicappers and shorter hitters. However, I would not necessarily exclude a carry in a teaching course because carries are out there in the real world and beginning golfers need to learn how to deal with them. What is most important is that new golfers with slower swing speeds be provided the opportunity to successfully reach the hazard with a full shot and to then be provided the opportunity to achieve the carry. There are several lessons to be learned from such an exercise and if water, or overly long rough is not present, recovery and course management lessons will be provided.

I would also include an OB and lateral hazards - even a creek. While not obviously or immediately attractive, new golfers when dealing with these elements learn much about the rules of the game and course management - replay and dropping procedures - that they will carry with them wherever they travel. Many new golfers only focus on the swing section of the game and fall very short when it comes to the rules.

Overall I would say we learn best from variety and that a learning course should provide the opportunity to sample the varied elements of the game in its entirety, while in a manageable and attractive environment. Aside from a significantly reduced yardage perhaps such a course would not be so different from a balanced regular course, after all.

All the best,
Lyne   

[Sean_A]

I reckon a good teaching course would be based on the same principles as a good course playable for all, except a shorter version or at least a version which is maybe 4000 yards.  Of course, most folks in my area learned on par 3s - thats a reasonable approach as well  .  Bottom line, no need to reinvent the wheel; round ones work pretty well. 

Ciao

[Josh Tarble]

This:  http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/4/1/revealed-alister-mackenzies-18-hole-augusta-short-course.html

That probably would have been an ideal teaching course.

[Jim Hoak]

Hank Haney built north of Dallas a 9-hole teaching course, where it was set so that a player would probably hit every club in his bag.

[RJ_Daley]

Wild Horse from the ladies tees are wide, room to let go, and interesting ground to play across.  There are challenges but nothing overwhelming, and one can also learn to play the wind, chipping, ground approaches, and putting on fast and contoured greens. 

I haven't been there, but by all accounts and photo threads, Mr. Nuzzo has built one that fits all talent levels and playing situations.

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks Lyne for the very considered and sensible post - but that's what I would have expected from you!
I can't disagree with any of your points.

Sean, I think that many golfers learned to play on a par 3 course but this is not necessarily what this idea is about. "Learning to play" is often I think more about a golfer teaching themselves how to get around a course, perhaps with some assistance and guidance from a parent or friend. A teaching golf course would I imagine be one where there would be more structure in terms of being taught and guided by a teaching pro. A small but important distinction in terms of this discussion.

[Ben Malach]

Coming at this from a 22 year olds perspective. I think a great teaching course needs to have a great set of greens as step 1. As the most fun I have with my friends just learning or who are not experienced players is on the green because it is the one place where they feel we are equal. Expanding from that point I think that the would need to be at least one green side bunker that needs to be carried on a short approach or could be avoided by playing to the right angle off of the tee. I have always feel that short course and par 3's get the short end of the stick in most cases as they are designed in a slap and dash manner without much consideration for the players that play there. Which is so sad as that is where and how we will grow the game as the player starting out their first time on a big course is a moment. It just saddens me that more great short and small course are not being built as i feel that it is a market being undeserved. The only evidence that I can provide for this is last summer during the morning one of the toughest tee times to get in St. Andrews was not the New or the Jubilee but the Strathtyrum course. As a lot of the older town members played there. It was also almost always steady in the afternoon with the kids. But location may have skewed the results a bit. But I truly believe that people want fun relaxed golf with great green and interesting design. That can be played fast instead of the slow trudge that a normal round is across North America. Where golf courses target rounds are 4 and a half for a four ball.     

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