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Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
 We are putting the finishing touches on a new and Imo unique project in South America located in the foothills of the Andes in Cordoba, Argentina in a small town called La Cumbre! We were fortunate to team up with a developer that trusted us and allowed us to create something, that hopefully will serve as a futuristic model for other developments throughout South America. What we have done is taken a lot of ideas and philosophies that have been discussed thoroughly on this site and they now are becoming realities and were excited to see how the market is going to accept these concepts. Our primary focus has been on economic sustainability although environmental sustainability was also strongly considered and incorporated throughout the project. Creating economic successful golf developments is a challenge in any part of the world but this is especially true with South America because of the small mass of golfers and the fact that golf is only one of many social past times that is basically played on weekends only. So, if more is not done with less, your in for a long haul and uphill battle. So together with the developer we laid out what I consider a basic business plan foundation for our current times and our current reality in Argentina with the following criteria.
•   Out of 150 or so Ha, we set aside 30ha for nine holes of quality golf. We recommended a five star hotel boutique hotel be built on a cliff some forty meters high overlooking the golf course with long panoramic vast views from all areas of the site and the surrounding foothills
•   They will have apartments and fractional ownership is also available to be managed and maintained by a future hotel group.
•   They will have lots and houses on the outter limits of the golf course and most will be above the golf and out of view to not take away from the golfing experience.
+ These are common factors in many areas of the world that seem to produce sufficient demand for product and producing profitable sales results. Many times these revenue producing sales get quickly ate up by, high cost golf construction cost and high maintenance cost so we tried controlling these cost by:
•   Reducing land requirements by half, by limiting the golf experience to 30 ha.
•   Routing the course in a natural valley and designing around and over of a natural deep wild dry creek that snakes it way throughout the property.
•   Produce a routing that will take advantage of the natural movement of the terrain to refrain from any significant earth moving. Eight and half holes had virtually no earth movement.
•   Creating holes with alternative-varying pars and alternative overall lengths and angles so one never gets bored and you can create different hole by hole routings suited to your game. For example:
#1, can be played as a par five six hundred yard starting hole and or a 460 par four and there are various tees in between these two tees to pick and choose, or if play is slow, you can play one tee and one ball as a par four and another tee and another ball as a par five.
#2 is a short sharp dogleg left, 345 up to 385 yards, that will be reachable with the wind but not really advisable. You will also have the alternative of playing this as a par 3 from 165 or 185 or 235.
#3 is a par four and  #4 a par three and both will be explained in detail with photos at the conclusions of this out line.
# 5 is another short to medium dogleg left 320 to 420 in yards, similar to hole number two, which is a bummer but that’s what the land dictated and I glad I accepted it that way and didn´t try to force something else by creating something artificial. A special solid, no gimmick golf hole that I will post pictures of in the near future. From the forward tee the green could be reachable for long hitters but I suspect the average score will be higher for them using that front tee then the back tee at 420 unless there smart and play a five iron off the front tee.
#6 is a short par four dog leg right 340 to 370 yards and should be a fun hole. It can also be played as a par 160 to 200 yards.
#7 is a medium to long par five that will play from 480 to 580 and is fairly straight and uphill to the first landing area and downhill to the second landing area and the hole finishes turning sharply right to the  green that sets up three meters above the second landing area.
#8 is a par three from 115 to 185 yards
#9 is a both a par four and a par five, which was posted a couple of months ago and I will bump in case you didn´t read about it the last time I posted.
Can be played from a Par 33 to Par 38
•   We installed a single row irrigation system with some of the landing areas designed with two rows for a total of 225 automatic irrigation heads in comparison to 1500 that we normally use on an eighteen hole course. Grassed maintained fairways will have an average with of 55 yards. Outside these maintained areas will be low maintenance native vegetation typical of the zone and gorgeous imo!


                                              Untouched native rough seperating holes three and four

•   Total water requirements will be about 200,000 to 250,000 gallons per day during summer months instead of typical one million per day. As a result pipe sizing is reduced in size and quantity and less electrical cost in relation to pumping.
•   I believe Cumbre is around the same distance from the equator as southern Georgia or northern Florida. We planted dwarf Bermuda on the tees, a mixture of improved drought resistance bluegrasses and fescues on the fairways. A mixture of A1 and A4 bentgrass for the greens and about six to seven ha. of sheep fescue for around the tees that will be watered infrequently with quick couplers and tripod manual sprinklers. The idea is to keep all grassed areas and especially the fairways, firm and fast and hungry with small amounts of annual fertilizer and almost no chemicals.
(The project is 4,000 feet above sea level so the nights cool down and make it possible to provide a dense quality hitting surface with cool season grasses throughout the year. The rainy season is summer, which is nice!)
•   First course in Argentina to be green year around which will be a good marketing factor.
•   Native vegetation, ornamental grasses and native shrubs used and transplanted in the landscaping throughout the project. Nothing bought offsite!
•   Nine holes can be played in an hour walking and eighteen in two. Average round of eighteen holes should be a little over three hours for the first couple of years until demand picks ups.
•   The overall length is not real long and imo the shortness of the course co-insides with the fairly narrow corridors due to the single row irrigation system. The par five can play long however and widen out at the landing areas for this reason.
•   Walking course only thereby eliminating the need for the expense of cart paths and investment cost for golf carts.
•   Total construction cost in the 1.5 million dollar range.
•   California greens style construction method. No peat-no coarse sand layer.
I will now present some photos from holes three and four and add other holes in the near future. You will have to use yor imagination a little and imagine the sheep fescue with twelve inches and browned out. It has a year now and is only four inches tall but we hope by next spring (Sept-Dec) we will get to those heights.




                                                        Before construction from the tee..you can see the wires if you look closely


                             Same área as previous photo...Sheep fescues around the tees needing more time to grow
 

                                                         Zoomed in from behind the forward tees


                                                                  Landing área to Green site

[
                                                    From the upper landing área..about 270 from the back tee


                                                  Hit it long into the lower landing and the Green becomes skyline


           looking back at the tees on the other side of the dry creek bed that is about ten feet wide and ten feet deep



                                        # Four, long par 3 230 into the wind, upper tees are about thirty feet above the rest of the holes


                                                                                        Before construction

                        
                                                                 Needs more time but taking form


                                                                                      Zoomed In!


             This one dedicated to my dad, Who use to say, Another Day, another dollar...fifty cents after taxes!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 08:22:11 AM by Randy Thompson »

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
hole nine par four and five



                                                The red X marks the area of the par four tee´s looking back from the landing area.


                                                  View from the first landing area platform just before dropping off to the dry creek




                                                             View of the landing area from just after the dry creek


                                                        View of the second landing area of the par five and the green in the background.



  The end of the second landing area of par five, sand bunker to the right of the green in the left side of the picture, followed by two grass depressions and another small sand bunker


                                                                                           Green site


Front part of the green slopes to the front, the small left pin positions slopes left and the back part of the green wraps around the bunkers and slopes towards the back


Vew from the left side of the second landing area from the rough and a view of the small irrigation pond.


« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 03:46:15 AM by Randy Thompson »

Charlie Gallagher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Randy,
   What a cool looking property!
You obviously put an enormous amount of thought into strategy and interest, in addition to sustainablility and economic viability. I know Don Mahaffey and Mike Nuzzo would endorse your less is more irrigation thinking as they reduced heads dramatically at Wolf Point which cut installation costs. Your approach looks similar.
   I may have missed it in your listing, but except for the sheep grass is it bassically two cuts, fairway and green? Nice job on the variability of distance in the design. Looking forward to your further postings.

Mike Sweeney

Randy,

Now that is remote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Cumbre,_Argentina

Who or what purpose does the course serve? Assuming you had a smaller budget, it looks very nice and an easy walk?

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
•   built on a cliff some forty meters high overlooking the golf course with long panoramic vast views from all areas of the site and the surrounding foothills
•   They will have lots and houses on the outer limits of the golf course and most will be above the golf and out of view to not take away from the golfing experience.
•   Routing the course in a natural valley and designing around and over of a natural deep wild dry creek that snakes it way throughout the property.
•   Produce a routing that will take advantage of the natural movement of the terrain to refrain from any significant earth moving. Eight and half holes had virtually no earth movement.
•   Walking course only thereby eliminating the need for the expense of cart paths and investment cost for golf carts.
•   Total construction cost in the 1.5 million dollar range.
•   California greens style construction method. No peat-no coarse sand layer.

Sounds a lot like a smaller Riviera.  Hope it turns out as well.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 07:09:54 AM by Joe Perches »

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mike
Cumbre is a weekend get away for the population of Cordaba, less then an hours distance. During the summer months LA Cumbre becomes a major vacation get away for the entire country of Argentina and the climate is excellent and not so hot because of the elevation. Cordaba is growing in popularity as an international destination especially with the Brazilans. The airport is the second busiest, second city airport in South America. There are International flights now arriving directly from Europe for example, ie Madrid! I see a lot of American there but mostly for the bird killing, ie dove and partridge. Its kind of a Little hippe town with a special energy and lots of Arts and crafts and home made products. Great meats, wine, pretty women, ice cream, pizza and empanadas!

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Randy,

Firstly, well done. Clearly you're very excited about this project and it's wonderful to read about.

I seem to recall you asked questions about the 230 yard par 3 before as some were suggesting you make it a par 4. Well done for resisting. I just have one piece of, I hope, constructive comment (I think it was a point I raised before): your guide seems to suggest the short stuff will stop before the green is reached. If so, and it's not so obvious from the picture so ignore me if I'm mistaken, could I perhaps encourage you to rethink? It looks like a running approach would work excellently here, particularly from that sort of range from the tee and particularly when using the front right side of the entrance to the green. Besides, it offers the shorter hitting the same option for the his or her second short and/or the rest of us when we come up miserably short!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 07:25:36 AM by Paul Gray »
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Paul,
 There will be or there is at least fifty yards of fairways, I beliive  Two tees are up and built into the shelf and three tees are down requiring a seventy yard carry over the natives, a forty yard carry and one tee that requires no carry.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 07:41:51 AM by Randy Thompson »

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Randy,

Sorry, I could have been clearer.

I meant fairway running right up to the green. I'm not concerned about forced carries. As I've said on here before, the idea that golden age design never featured forced carries is a myth.

It's probably just that the drawing is a little inaccurate as the pictures suggest no rough in front of the green but I just wanted to clarify.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 08:50:56 AM by Paul Gray »
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sorry its early for me, no there is no rough in front of the Green, short grass for bump and run  and recovery shots and a few of the holes, like nine, we run the entire fairway cut around the Green and number five we run the fairway to the right side of the Green.

Don_Mahaffey

Randy,
Can you tell me more about the rock wall on 9? Existing, or constructed by you? Is it a boundary?

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Don,
These walls are typical for the área and were created many years ago as property borders. I would say I see fifty or sixty from the airport to the property. This particular wall was running across the fairway in a less than ideal place so we re-routed it. Let me go back and find the original Wall in the staking phase were you can see how it cuts across the hole.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 08:44:54 AM by Randy Thompson »

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kelly,
I have more tan 300 days on site and still go every month, the amount time on site changes, I am heading there on Thursday for seven days. I am training the super and the staff and implementing minor changes and continuing to improve the landscaping and finishing details. The hotel is still a year away from opening but whwn it does there maybe conversation about moving my base there in the future. Neither one of us wants this to be a marketing scheme, its something I beleive we both believe in but time will tell. On the same extent I can´t tell him none of this will work at this point in time if I am not involved full time.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
This looks like a great project, Randy.  I really like the idea of nine holes with a variety of tees and options.  That should also enhance family play, the younger kids can play from alternate tees that create different, not just shorter, holes.  The terrain looks a lot like the Texas hill country.   How does one get from Buenos Aires to Cordoba?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Kelly,
I have more tan 300 days on site and still go every month, the amount time on site changes, I am heading there on Thursday for seven days.

300 days!  That's damned near full time anyway!  

I think Kelly is just saying you ought to get paid for all your involvement, and it might be easier if you were on salary there and moonlighting elsewhere.

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tom,
2007 was the first site visits and we have been in construction over three years for nine holes. Normally ten people working. I am being paid for my involvement and it was clear to him from the begining that my involvement after opening was essential to the program. As do what extent...will see and adjust accordingly but he has shown commitment up to this point.

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0


A green that produces shadows like this one just screams "PLAY HERE!"

Thanks for sharing, Randy.

Ricardo Ramirez Calvo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Randy,

I had heard about this project from various sources. Is looks great. I regularly go to La Cumbre and it is great to have another option to play. La Cumbre Golf Club is one of my favorite courses. Did you know that it was designed by the same guy who did Mar del Plata Golf Club?

It is a great place to go on vacation and for golfers, Córdoba is an excellent destination. Full of great courses.

For Bill, Córdoba is 700 km from Buenos Aires by highway and La Cumbre is approximately 70 km further north. By plane is a 50  min flight to Córdoba airport.
Ricardo

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ricardo,
La Cumbre Golf Club is cool and a fun golf experience and so many liittle things could be done to make it better. Some of the Pines have grown and are blocking bunkers and parts of the greens. Let me know when you have a trip scheduled and we can meet up and play. I would like to invite a fun group of friends in September or October for a couple of days and if so will put you on the list.

Mike Sweeney

Great meats, wine, pretty women, ice cream, pizza and empanadas!

Now that is a sustainable model that I can get behind.

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Designing for the future NOW! Something special in Cordoba, Argentina
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2013, 06:11:54 PM »
bump for new thread on holes 2 and five