[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 17: Par 3, 180 Yards

2008 Aerial:




2011 Aerial:




Depending on pin position, the 17th can be a final opportunity to make a birdie, or the beginning of a brutally tough finish when combined with the 18th.

Interestingly, this is the only par-3 where a left-to-right tee shot is the preference.  Simple design variety is very effective.


Tee View:






Short of Green:






Green from Behind:

[Sean_A]

Sean, I think the reason they didn't go further is because their changes to the icon were really pushing the edge of the envelope. It looks radically different and radically changing a course that is already hosting the U.S. Open was really hard for average member to digest. A lot of them (probably the majority) were not keen on the modifications. There is not a shortage of taciturn members whose chief hobby in retirement is to complain. Somewhere in the course of their personal development many of them have come to the conclusion that to be charmless is an ok way to move through life. I think you could say the attitude was one of sharp skepticism. Out and out objection was probably held in check because the members had a sense that the people advocating the change were substantive people - and they did have respect for those opinions. The changes are very well received now but there was not too much enthusiasm by the majority at the beginning. All that makes the decision to go ahead with the changes by owner Dedman and president Padgett the more impressive - really impressive. Radically changing an icon? Not something you see every day.

And so, they went so far with the changes that to radically change the greens as well would have been pushing the boundaries just too far at the time. After the course receives raves in 2014 - and it will - then they will have a mandate to go further. Hopefully that means those fabulous original Ross greens will be put back.
That is not a definitive answer - just my take on the matter.
I think the people involved in the project deserve enormous credit. Tampering with an icon is very, very sensitive territory. Luckily it turned out brilliantly. I'd say we should be enormously thankful for what happened and not be too sharp with the criticism. The overall picture will take time - and a measure of patience.

Carl, here are some pre C/C shots:

Chris

Thank you for the response.  I spose I am disappointed that this work is called a reno when the two things which always stand out in a Ross are the routing and greens.  The routing is original, yet the greens are anything but.  Of course, the added trees bring nothing positive to the design.  In any case, a true reno....

Ciao

[Chris Buie]

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 18: Par 4, 430 Yards

2008 Aerial:




2011 Aerial:




It's about 240 yards to carry the massive and intimidating fairway bunker on the right.  Clearly the preferred line into the green is from the right alongside the fairway bunker, but bunkering short and left of the green mean that no line will have an easy approach.

Back Tee View:




White Tee View:






Approaches from the right must carry natural waste area 20 yards short of the green:






From Behind:

[JMEvensky]

Thanks for taking the time to do this--and all the other tours.

I watched the replay of the 1999 Open last night.It's like 2 completely different golf courses.

[Chris Buie]

A comparison with before the renovation and 1938.

[hhuffines]

Chris, thank you for the great old photos you add in!   What are those dark areas in the fairway from '38?  Shadows?

[Mark Saltzman]

A few more past vs. present hole comparisons.  Old photos courtesy Chris Buie.

Hole 1












Hole 2












Hole 3







Hole 4












Hole 8

[Matthew Essig]

Thanks for taking the time to do this--and all the other tours.

I watched the replay of the 1999 Open last night.It's like 2 completely different golf courses.

+1

[Patrick Glynn]

Thanks to Mark & Chris for the great tour & commentary.

I am actually heading to #2 this March and was wondering if there are any pictures of the restored dormant course? The idea of brown grass terrifies an Irishman...

Regards,

Patrick

[hhuffines]

Patrick, there's a lot less dormant Bermuda out there nowadays... It's the love grass, pine trees and needles that can cause stress. 

Last night I stumbled across an old video production of golf at Pinehurst in the 30s.  It's not all #2 but its interesting and includes Byron Nelson and Bobby Jones.  Look it up on youtube - Pinehurst 1938.

[Tim_Weiman]

Patrick,

Actually, my Irish friends - Ballybunion guys - are pretty comfortable playing on the brown grass.

[Patrick Glynn]

Tim,

With all due respect, there is a difference between a links course having a nice brown tinge after a hot summer and dormant bermuda...

Are you suggesting that you would see the below at Ballybunion? Lahinch? Would be interested to hear how #2 plays post-restoration with dormant bermuda? My understanding is that it plays much faster & firmer (a good thing) - the contrast just is not something I am used to having grown up playing links golf in Ireland.




@ Hart - really nice to see those historic videos - a great resource to have - no doubt.

Regards,

Patrick

[Joe_Tucholski]

Thanks to Mark & Chris for the great tour & commentary.

I am actually heading to #2 this March and was wondering if there are any pictures of the restored dormant course? The idea of brown grass terrifies an Irishman...

Regards,

Patrick

Patrick,

The fairways on #2 are "painted, so you aren't going to see the contrast like you will at Dormie Club.

[Jerry Kluger]

I was looking at the scorecard and the course rating and slope and it seemed to me to be underrated, especially as to slope.  We all know how difficult the greens are so I would have thought that would drive up the slope.  I would be hesitant to play a match against a someone whose handicap is based primarily on scores from #2.  What do you think?

[Jason Topp]

Brian - I completely agree with your comments about needing multiple plays to really understand the course.  It is difficult to decipher.  

Jerry - Wide fairways, no water hazards and almost no opportunity to lose a ball seems a perfect recipe for low slope.  

[Thomas Dai]

I've always been very interested and really looked forward to watching events played on this course after reading various reviews, books, articles, photo tours etc, but I can't help feel, admittedly from a far distance, and this is not meant as a criticism or a slight, that previous incarnations of the course seem well, bland, in comparison with what photos reveal it to be like now. Maybe it's the photos, maybe it's the light, maybe it's an element of 'eye-candy', but somehow post renovation the course looks so much more 'I wanna play it!'. One day perhaps...Just MO. Looking forward to the US Open's.
All the best

[Steve Kline]

Brian - many members will only play P2 on days and/or times that don't involve resort guests. The members play it much faster.

Jerry - I have said in every thread on Pinehurst that the course is really hard for good players but not so hard for average or poor players. No water, almost no trees in play, no chance for a lost ball, and the getting up and down is really difficult, which the good player expects but the average or poor player almost never does in any event. The good player will not likely not play to his handicap while the average player likely will.

[Steve Kline]

As recently as a couple of years ago it was two or three days a week I believe. It switched between mornings and afternoons.

[Joe_Tucholski]

How often does that happen? I can't imagine members having priority v often...

20 of the 30 days this month had/have members ony tee time periods and 28 of 31 days in December have members only tee time periods.

[Neil_Crafter]

The course looks terrific now and thanks for this photo tour.

One quick question - how will they go in determining during a tournament whether a ball is in or not in a bunker, given the way the bunkers seem to bleed out into the sandy rough? is this an issue from those who have played there recently?

[Jordan Standefer]

The course looks terrific now and thanks for this photo tour.

One quick question - how will they go in determining during a tournament whether a ball is in or not in a bunker, given the way the bunkers seem to bleed out into the sandy rough? is this an issue from those who have played there recently?

The local rule is that a bunker is defined by a sand area enclosed by grass.  Anything not enclosed (bleeds into the surroundings) is considered a waste area where by you are allowed to ground your club.

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks Jordan.

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