Muirfield village Golf Club; is it as good as I remember it?

[ChipOat]

There is a good article in this weekend's WSJ (page A14, I think) re: golf in Nebraska's sand hills that, among other things, gives Tom Doak some well-deserved kudo's.

One of the comments in the piece was dismissive of a Jack Nicklaus course nearby, which got me thinking about GCA and Muirfield Village Golf Club.

First, JN is not the most revered architect on GCA, and I haven't played enough of his courses to have an informed opinion.

However, I did play Muirfield Village twice in the early 1980's.  While this was prior to GCA and my introduction to Tom Paul (and others), by that (pre-marriage, pre-parenthood) time I had already played at least two rounds - and many more in a couple of cases - at Merion, PVGC, ANGC (pre-bent grass greens), Shinnecock, Maidstone, Harbor Town, Seminole, Oakmont, NGLA, Pebble Beach, Cypress Point, San Francisco GC, Scioto, The Golf Club, The Scarlet Course at OSU, The Country Club (including the Composite Course), The Olympic Club, Inverness, Aronimink, Winged Foot (both), Quaker Ridge, Baltusrol (both) Wilmington CC (both), Bidermann, Pinehurst #2 (pre-knowledgeable ownership), Pasatiempo (pre-restoration), Peachtree, Garden City Golf Club, Fishers Island, Piping Rock, The Creek and The Links Golf Club (NLE).

For those of you who think I'm bragging, since marriage and parenthood starting in the late 1980's, I have played almost none of them since (three exceptions).  Also, the only really good one I can add to my list since 1992 is Friar's Head.  That's just the way it has worked out.

The point is that, whether or not I knew what I was really looking at when I played MVGC, I had seen enough "great" golf courses, talked to enough people and read most of what little golf architecture had been written back then to have an opinion (hopefully, an informed one) on what was a good golf course when I played one.

I was very impressed with Muirfield Village Golf Club and I'm not sure that many people inside and outside GCA agree with me on that.  My question is "why not?"

Now, I am the guy who is on record with GCA that Bay Hill is underrated, so my opinions may already be dismissed.

Also, I know there have been changes to MVGC over the years, but I haven't read anywhere that they were especially controversial.

Does Muirfield Village deserve higher marks, or am I just unworthy of any credibility on GCA?    

[Matt Kardash]

Last I check Muirfield Village is consistently ranked in the top 30 in USA. So how exactly is it underrated?

[Jim Nugent]

Matt, I thought Chip was asking about the attitude here on GCA.com towards MV.  In the unofficial rankings Ian Andrews tabulated a few years back, MV came in 105th.  

[ChipOat]

Matt,

Jim got my point; it is the GCA "rating" via kudos and brickbats that I am trying to flesh out.

My positive thread on Bay Hill a couple of years ago got a lot of posts - mostly negative (but not all).

I've been away for a week, so this thread suffered from neglect.  Now that I'm home, I'm trying to bring it to life.

Nicklaus is not GCA's favorite architect.

What does the Treehouse think about Muirfield Village?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Chip

While Nicklaus may not be GCA's favorite, his recent work has been given much praise here-May River and Concession, for example.

Here's the article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303342104579101211691661186.html?KEYWORDS=doak

[Adam Clayman]

Chip, to call JN the architect that made you like MV, might be in error. Since it was so long ago, Desmond Muirhead's influence on what you liked was likely much greater.

How about you go back, and tell us what you think, now?

[Joel_Stewart]

Jack has professed that just about anything Desmond put into the course is now gone.

Muirfield is just another version of Augusta.  The creeks winding through a par 5 and in front of the par 3 (both are the 12th hole), the conditions, the manicured trees, the white bunkers, the super green color, the fast greens.  Its a copy cat course.

[Will Lozier]

I grew up in Springfield, less than an hour away, and my dad took me to the Memorial from about the age of 8 to 16 and I was lucky enough to caddie the course during a junior tournament for a buddy.  

I agree with you Chip that MVGC is probably underappreciated for it's routing - I think the flow is remarkable - and excellent use of some natural hazards/features.  I am not at all a fan of the changes to 16 & 17 and would prefer a less uniform/neat bunker look but, It is Jack's tribute to ANGC.  To call it a copy cat course, though, seems absurd.

At the same time, I've struggled to appreciate it from year to year since I've been back.  

Cheers

[Jim Nugent]

Jack has professed that just about anything Desmond put into the course is now gone.  

How is that possible if Desmond routed the course?  

Jack, to my knowledge, has never routed a course in his life.  I think he may have an entirely different view of what golf course design is.  Other architects I read about say the routing is the core, the key, the bones, the foundation.  I wonder if to Jack that is not so critical, and that he thinks the strategies and shot values that he builds into courses are the really important thing?  He made other somewhat dismissive comments about Doak -- words to the effect that Tom knows how to make a course look good -- even though Tom routed Sebonack.  

[Tim Liddy]

Mr. Dye told me he routed Muirfield for Jack Nicklaus (all but the 18th which they turned against the hill back to the clubhouse). I believe Mr. Nicklaus and Mr. Dye were working together at the time.

The golf course is aging well as continued mechanical maintenance of bunker edging and fairway mowing has soften and removed much of the artificial  "wiggles" of the earlier design. A few of the green complexes are starting to get a more old school look (although there are still a few bunker complexes , #8 for example, that are too busy for my taste). The deep green-side bunkering makes the majority of green complexes appear as isolated table tops.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Chip


It's not online yet so I suggest you read Ron Whitten's article detailing course changes in the latest issue of Golf World:

Midwest Masterpiece
Muirfield Village, host venue for the Presidents Cup, is a magnificent test -- and a 40-year study of Jack Nicklaus' architectural acumen.
BY RON WHITTEN

[Mike Schott]

Jack has professed that just about anything Desmond put into the course is now gone.

Muirfield is just another version of Augusta.  The creeks winding through a par 5 and in front of the par 3 (both are the 12th hole), the conditions, the manicured trees, the white bunkers, the super green color, the fast greens.  Its a copy cat course.

 

So what? It makes perfect sense that Nicklaus would want his signature course to emulate many of the golfing values of ANGC. It's not exactly a copy cat but has many of the strategic features of the current Augusta. Of course right now ANGC does not have a risk reward drivable par 4.

[Sean Leary]

For what if is worth, MV looks a lot more interesting and distinctive than almost any of the great parkland courses that all look the same on TV. TV does a great job of blocking out the housing as well.

[ChipOat]

Thanks, guys.

While I doubt that I'll ever get back to play it again, I do appreciate the feedback.

At least MVGC gets better reviews around here than Bay Hill (which I still like very much).