Chipping: flag in or out?

[Tommy Williamsen]

It depends on the type of materials the make up the stick of course, but I prefer the flag out with either a chip or another shot from around the green that I think I can make.  I play with a guy who never takes it out when he is off the green. He maintains that a shot that is going to quickly will be stopped slowed down by the flag stick. I tell him to hit it the correct speed. I find that I generally get the ball closer when the flag is out.  Must be pressure not to look like a hot dog.
So, flag in or out?

[Garland Bayley]

If the flag leans towards you take it out, as it will keep the ball out. Otherwise, leave it in.

[Andrew Calcutt]

Tom,

I've often cited Pelz's research when people ask the question. He answered the question as scientifically as he could:

http://www.golf.com/instruction/flag-or-out

Personally, I think I've made more shots with the flag in, but that's only because I rarely take it out. Plenty of my shots have been rejected by the flagstick too. Rigorous testing of the odds seems the only way to really answer the question.  

If you're pondering it on the course do you strip yourself of the right mindset to make a good shot? That could be the more important question.

AC

[Pete Lavallee]

The Pelz data was complied by simulating balls that went 3, 6 and 9 feet past the hole. From that he determoined that leaving the flag in gave you the greatest chance to make chips. I often wonder why he didnt try shots that would have rolled 17 inches pqst the hole; the distance he determined through testing that gave all putts the best chance to stay in the hole? I can certainly see why a ball that would have rocketed 9 feet past the hole would be aided by leaving the flagstick in, but what about the ones which only went 17 inches by the hole? Dave, we need more data!

[astavrides]

.

[Tommy Williamsen]

For me it comes down to a question of attitude.  For whatever reason when I take the flag out I think more about making it than getting it close and almost always hit a good shot. 

[Wade Whitehead]

Tommy:

If someone has already pulled the flag, I chip with it out.  If no one is near the flag, I just leave it in.  Whichever is faster generally suits me.

WW

[Tim Bert]

Either Golf Digest or Golf Magazine did a study on this years ago and I recall their conclusion being that in almost all circumstances the pin should be left in.

They never played at Kingsley.  At Kingsley always take the pin out unless your primary concern is a fast ball rolling off the green if it doesn't hit the pin.  Almost every shot that hits the pin will be rejected.

[Jason Connor]

The pin never helped a good shot.  Unless it's downhill I usually take it out.

That said I'm with WW -- if it's in and no one is near it I rarely bother walking up to remove it unless it's evident it's really leaning towards me.

[Alex Miller]

For me it comes down to a question of attitude.  For whatever reason when I take the flag out I think more about making it than getting it close and almost always hit a good shot. 

Yep me too. I get into a putting mentality and tend to not run the ball as far by because I don't feel the pin is there as a safety. Also it just looks so smooth when you do make one. 

[Jim_Coleman]

    Depends on the type of flag stick.  The heavy metal ones almost never help.  The skinny fiberglass ones (used on the tour) are very forgiving.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

If the flag leans towards you take it out, as it will keep the ball out. Otherwise, leave it in.

We finally agree !  

[A.G._Crockett]

   Depends on the type of flag stick.  The heavy metal ones almost never help.  The skinny fiberglass ones (used on the tour) are very forgiving.  

This is the correct answer.

My club uses metal flagsticks that could be used to sting power lines or replace I beams in heavy construction.  If I can see the hole, those suckers are coming out; there is no circumstance under which they help.  Fiberglass is another story.

[Thomas Dai]

I believe Dave Pelz did some statistical analysis regarding this matter several years ago and the outcome suggested keeping the pin in was likely to result in more holed shots than removing it. Not sure if this analysis was done with the older heavy metal flagsticks or the newer skinny fibreglass ones. Trying to recall if Phil Mickelson has the pin left in or does Bones takes it out for him when he's on/around the fringe? I think Seve used to use both methods but it's sadly been a while....
All the best