Driveable Par-5s

[Matt Albanese]

Every year while watching Bay Hill, I wonder what it would be like if the carry over the lake to the green at #6 were just a bit shorter. Short enough so that players might think about trying to drive the green, but long enough that it entailed serious risk. Would this be interesting or have I gone crazy? What would the carry distance have to be to make this feasible for the tour pros? Anyone know of any examples of driveable par-5s?

[Keith OHalloran]

The first hole on "The Short" course at Maidstone is a severe dogleg par 5. If you drive it over the out of bounds and a house, you can drive it (or it can be driven, I don't know if I could do it) Two years ago the assistant pro got a hole in one!

[Matthew Essig]

The first hole on "The Short" course at Maidstone is a severe dogleg par 5. If you drive it over the out of bounds and a house, you can drive it (or it can be driven, I don't know if I could do it) Two years ago the assistant pro got a hole in one!

What is a score of -4 called?

[Alex Miller]

The first hole on "The Short" course at Maidstone is a severe dogleg par 5. If you drive it over the out of bounds and a house, you can drive it (or it can be driven, I don't know if I could do it) Two years ago the assistant pro got a hole in one!

What is a score of -4 called?

On 1 hole? Poor design.

[Keith OHalloran]

Alex, I think it is actually hole 2, but I can not edit on the IPad.

[Jonathan Mallard]

Would that start a serious conversation about dialing back the ball?

[Alex Miller]

Alex, I think it is actually hole 2, but I can not edit on the IPad.

Haha, I was actually answering the "what's it called?" question? A player should not be able to make a hole in one on a well-designed par 5.

[Keith OHalloran]

Alex, I realized that after, I wrote it. 
By the way, it is called a Condor.

[RJ_Daley]

I think that 338 yard distance shown on your google measurment tool is pretty good to be within the consideration of your question.  However, the green shape and orientation isn't, owing to the shallow or narrow depth of the green on that line make and it becomes a fools errand, for the hole depicted.  

I do think it is a valid and interesting design concept.  If the green has a direct 'as the crow flies sort of line of 340-380 to a pin, with a slight landing area of 10-30 yards depth in that foregreen area, and has a deeper green design that makes it tempting for a big hitter to have a long shot odds or gamble of holding the green if calculating a rare strong wind known to come up now and then at the geographic location and hole direction of the proposed par 5 being considered for design, I like it.  Of course the green shape has to function for the 99.5% of of the people that play it conventionally and approach on second or third shot.

How about this:  Take this same hole #6, and in a sort of contrarian way, have a slight pennisula built into the lake out from the back tee on that same line - about 30 yards into the lake, for a member sort of tee.  Ironically, that pennisula tee would be as long or longer on the conventional line played up the conventional FW.  Make that tempting carry about 280-90ish.  Then (while it can't be done in this example due to location of 7th tee) but if the green was made a bit deeper on that hero line, making it within the realm of possible, I think it could be a valid design concept.

Why shouldn't there be a remote possiblity of a HIO on a par 5?  And, if it came at a place near the end of the 18 hole loop, it could be the ultimate pivotal hole in a tournament for a strong player, trailing 3 strokes behind with 2-3-4 holes to play.

Would we have to call a -4 of par something gargantuan, like "Pterosaur"?  

[Mark Chaplin]

Keith - there used to be a blind par 3 at Deal where there were lots of holes in one 

I'm sure the assistant pro believes he got an ace, but I'd be shocked if he did!

[Ronald Montesano]

Tiger Woods submitted a more rectangular version of that type of hole (to the amateur architect contest of Golf Digest) when he was a kid. Look it up...

I like the term "Condor." It's easy for unsmart people like I two remember.

Pterosaurus would have me confuzzled, wonder if I should pronounce the "p" like in Psychologist, or if it should remain silent, as in Pathological.

[Wade Whitehead]

Out of respect for anyone who has visited more than once, I'll omit the name of the course following.

In the early 90s I played a course near Johnson City, Tennessee with my brother.  We played into a twosome of regulars and finished 12 or 13 holes with them.  At some point we arrived on a tree-lined par five that appeared to dogleg sharply (~90 degrees right) at about 220 from the tee.  We both hit some sort of iron or fairway wood.

Both of our playing partners chose pitching wedges, turned 90 degrees to the left (so they were aiming directly into/over the woods immediately beside the tee) and swung at full force.  The green, apparently, was about 130 yards away, but through dense trees.  The hole eventually doglegged twice and ended up pretty much back where it started.

One guy never found his tee ball.  It must have hit a tree and dropped into the woods.  The other ball?  On the green, where it was quickly four-putted for a "par."

WW

[Carl Rogers]

Royal New Kent, 2nd hole is a 180 degree horseshoe right par 5.  If not for the trees, it might be a 340 yard carry.

[Doug Sobieski]

Matt, believe it or not, but it was documented in Golf World and Golfweek several years ago that a guy that competes as a long driver did exactly what you suggest on 6 at Bay Hill in a casual round. He had a reasonable putt for double eagle according to reports.

I worked there before the ProV1 age dawned, so it was much more of a fantasy then. But today, if you gave some ReMax competitors the right wind, I think you'd see a few knock it on with enough chances.

[Ronald Montesano]

When John Daly attempted to drive from Table Rock (Canadian side) to Terrapin Point (USA side) of the Falls (the reverse path of Wallenda's tightrope walk), I recall one of his first four drives hit the bottom of the gorge. None of the 20 came close to carrying through the mist and wind. Had a ReMax dude been there, I give five drives max before one carried. Different game.

[Doug Siebert]

The local Elks Club has a 9 hole course dating from around 1900 in town, it has a 'horseshoe' par 5 that ostensibly plays about 500 yards.  The actual distance of course depends on whether you can cut some of it off and avoid driving well through the fairway (it curves to the right, good for slicers, not so good for me!)  When I played it in high school I was told there was one guy who would hit a 5 wood over the trees at a 90* angle from the tee and could get on/near the green.  I took a couple swipes with a 3 iron (not carrying a fairway wood) and while I couldn't hear any trees on the far end never found the ball - but I had NO clue exactly what direction I should even be aiming.

When I was there for the first time in a long time a couple years ago I remembered that and wondered what direction I'd have to go, but the trees looked to be a lot taller/closer to the teebox so it may no longer be possible, except for those rare few who have a ~220 yard 8 iron in their bag.

[Jeff Bertch]

Two years ago the assistant pro got a hole in one!

Pretty risky if you ask me! Flying your drives over multi-million dollar houses that probably belong to your members. Seems like a good way to get yourself canned...that said, I bet this guy is a "legend" with the membership now!