Counting courses when there's 27 holes

[Scott Warren]

I'm interested to hear how others would approach this.


Like many, I keep track of the courses I've played. This week, I played all 27 holes at Coffs Harbour GC. I was wondering to myself why it is I consider some 27-hole clubs as a single entry (typically those with 27 holes but the third nine isn't positioned  by the club as a distinct course, even though 1-18 is clearly the "premier" 18-hole arrangement) while for others, I have the "third nine" listed as its own course (eg.  Pine Valley, Morfontaine, Burnham&Berrow -- where all have a distinct identity of their own: Short, Vallaire & Channel respectively). This is more in line with 36-hole clubs like Royal Melbourne, The Berkshire & MPCC where there is very clear demarcation in place between the two golf courses.


I suppose my steer has been how the club presents it -- either as a 27-hole facility or as a main course with an accompanying nine-holer -- but keen to see what others have as their guide for how they deal with this consideration.


Is the third nine always a new course, distinct from the main 18? If not, what's your determining factor of when 27 holes equals one course and when it's two courses?

[Thomas Dai]

Some of the most interesting courses I’ve played have been ‘the other 9’ or ‘the other 18’ at clubs with a famous main course.....eg St Olaf at Cruden Bay, Annesley at Royal County Down, and the Kilmore-9 at Carne, irrespective of whether or not it should be part of the main course loop, is a wonderful test of golf.
Not really too fussed if they’re of the same standard or are occasionally linked-in with the main course loop. Many of them evolved from what we’re once termed ‘ladies courses’ or ‘relief courses’ and even if a little shorter on the card are still great for young juniors, those who are in some way infirm or who are getting on in years and can no longer manage 18-holes on the main course etc. Good for beginners/novices as well.
Atb

[Sean_A]

Scott

There is usually a main 18 for 27 holers as is the case for Princes, St Georges Hill, Portmarnock etc.  For some reason, it peaves me when clubs try to play it like there are 3 equal nines (ie courses) when that is rarely the case.  I get back to Princes, the club has desperately tried for years to promote the Himalayas as an equal 9, but even after a serious rebuild I find it far inferior to the Dunes and not as good as the Shore. I wonder if the club will use the Him when events come their way..I suspect so.  One thing I like about the Princes arrangement is 9 hole rates and I spose that counts as much as anything for the concept of 3 nines.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Scott:


I've had the same problem deciding how to list 27-hole courses for The Confidential Guide.


Clearly, some places like Thomas mentioned make a distinction between the main 18 and a separate nine-hole course, so I will always list those as two separate courses.  But when a club touts its 27 holes as being all of equal status, so they can put you on any two of the three nines they want, then I'm inclined to rate that as a single course.


Personally, I think the latter option is the kiss of death as far as getting a course ranked highly.  The raters all want to know "what's the main 18," and if you can't tell them, they are likely to think less of it on the premise it can't be that great if the third nine is just as good.  That's the only explanation I have for why a place like Ridgewood, with three great nines, is not rated among the top 100 in the U.S.A.

[Brad Tufts]

I tend to view it with how they can be differentiated or not.  I played a regular public course in NC once with three nines of pretty equal stature, and played all 27 in a day...I'd view that as "1" course.


This differs, however from a place like The Country Club in Brookline, MA.  I have been lucky enough to play the Open/Ryder/US Am. layout a couple times so I count it as three total.  1) The regular members 18, 2) the Champ layout with 15 members holes and 3 from the third nine, and 3) the Primrose, the "other" nine from which three holes go to the Champ layout.  If there wasn't such a cache surrounding the opportunity to play the Champ Course, I probably wouldn't count it as separate, but I do!


Of course for the US Open in 2022 there will be a new Championship routing with different holes, new tees, etc.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I agree with most here that trying to tout three equal nines that can be played in any combination is a bad marketing ploy.


When I did the Kilmore, the intent was initially to combine it with the old Carne back nine to become the main 18. It would be serious up and down dune stuff  but what a ride. I’d even resequenced it to provide an easier walk... since then, the club have lost their way with that idea somewhat... but if they never do it, I’d much prefer the Kilmore to remain as the cool, side 9 rather than be part of a three loop main course... Like the Valliere at Morfontaine perhaps...

[Scott Warren]

Thanks all for giving your views.


Definitely agree on giving the third nine it’s own identity. But gets a bit awkward when, as is the case at Coffs Harbour, it’s the best nine on the property!

[MCirba]

I count exactly as Tom Doak describes.


I know an older guy who reached 1000 courses played but he counted every 27 hole course as three courses and I didn't have the heart to tell him differently.

[V. Kmetz]

Without ever having studied it and only one visit, I think Ridgewood (NJ) is a premium Tillie venue for what the thread seeks... a well-regarded classic site with an elite competetive hosting history.


Though they have a "championship course" joining what I think are the East and West nines, the everyday scorecard has all three (including the Center Nine) listed with equal weight.


cheers  vk

[Mark Kiely]

I'd suggest a good test is the scorecard. If all 27 are on the same card, it's one course. If one nine has a separate card, count it as separate.

[Adam T]

Counter to most opinions presented, I actually let the club itself determine what I list on my "courses played" spreadsheet. If the club prefers to designate each 9 separately, then I count them as such [Keith Hills in NC (Orange/Black/White), Blue Fox Run in CT (Blue, Red, White), etc.]. If they promote an 18 and a 9, then I also count them separately [Racebrook in CT].
I reconcile this method by maintain a running column of "total unique holes played" based on the number of holes I have played at each course. That way, I look forward to both "course milestones" [100th course played, 150th course played, etc.] as well as "unique hole" milestones [2000th unique hole played, 2500th unique hole played, etc.].

-Adam

[Tyler Kearns]

I've played St. Charles many times as a guest or in competition and about 3/4 of the time we play the Mackenzie and Ross nines, whether or not that is the official 18 for that day.  The members want their guests to play the best two nines and they clearly view the Woods (Norman, not Tiger) nine as inferior - although it has a nice opening stretch of 5 holes.  I keep track of courses played and count St. Charles as one course.


Tyler