News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« on: November 21, 2011, 07:40:01 PM »
November 18 was the hearing on the suit regarding Sharp Park. A judgement is expected within the next 2 weeks.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/blogs/local-knowledge/2011/11/both-sides-optimistic-after-sharp-park-hearing.html

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2011, 04:39:16 PM »
Very interesting; do keep us informed.

A preliminary injunction seems like a big ask considering that the "irreparable damage" would have occuring for years and years.

Nothing like a name perfectly fit for its position! "Bo Links, co-founder of the San Francisco Public Golf Alliance"

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 01:39:19 PM »
Positive news for Sharp Park...

From Golf Digest:

A preliminary injunction sought by opponents of Sharp Park golf course in Pacifica, Calif., to stop pumping and mowing on half of the 1932 Alister Mackenzie layout -- measures that would have effectively shut it down -- has been denied by a California court.

... The case is expected to go to trial next July


http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/blogs/local-knowledge/2011/11/court-system-on-sharp-parks-side-for-now.html
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, 01:41:50 PM »
Howard R. -

Thanks for the update and the good news!

DT

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, 01:53:29 PM »
I was just going to post this myself.

I am probably a certifiable tree hugger relative to the rest of the tree house, but I've never understood why golf course, frog, and garter snake can't continue to coexist.  As a matter of fact, it seems to me that if the golf course takes reasonable care of its grounds, it would probably be better for the frogs and snakes.

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 05:33:36 PM »
I was just going to post this myself.

I am probably a certifiable tree hugger relative to the rest of the tree house, but I've never understood why golf course, frog, and garter snake can't continue to coexist.  As a matter of fact, it seems to me that if the golf course takes reasonable care of its grounds, it would probably be better for the frogs and snakes.

Looks like on the surface sanity has prevailed ... at least until July of next year.

The bottom line is there NEVER was any snake or frog until there was Sharp Park...  Without SP, there wouldn't even be any frogs / snakes.  The enviros quickly, easily, and conveniently lose sight of this.

“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2011, 10:19:26 AM »

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2011, 02:18:28 PM »
And the tree house wonders why it takes so much time and money to construct anything new, due to environmental regulations and NIMBY neighbors?

If the course were not irrigated and cared for, the habitat where the frogs and snakes reside would naturally erode over and become successional.  In 15-20 years there would be a different flora/fauna mix as moist grasslands are naturally replaced by a what is next in the succesional progress of the area to a mature forest.

Why would the City of San Francisco want to improve or maintain any frog/snake habitat on the 9 holes of the course under consideration if they derive no economic benefit from it ? Let the entire 18 holes revert back to nature. Costs nothing and walk away.

If the bugs and bunny folks are successful in obtaining their relief next July, who compensates for the "taking" of 9 holes of land for their habitat?  Public recreeation is being harmed if this "taking" occurs, which warrants monitary compensation, IMHO.  As nothing new is being proposed for construction, an existing condition is being asked to mitigate a natural population who came to inhabit it post construction. 

As example, a pair of bald eagles nest in a tree on a large lot with structures and ongoing uses..  The bugs and bunny folks look to have the lot the tree is on condemned and taken to protect the eagles because they chose to nest there after the buildings were constructed. Logic dictates restricting any new construction, which would impact the nesting eagles, but going to court to stop an existing ongoing use which predates the nesting birds is a taking, with the property owner due just compensation. In my professional opinion.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 11:14:54 PM by David_Tepper »

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2011, 12:02:52 AM »
It seems to me that there is alot of speculation and little hard evidence in the Plaintiff case, while the Defendants have been documenting their actions.  The intersting conundrum is, if no one knows whether the water was originally brackish or not, whether the frog was there prior to building the seawall.  since the seawall has been in plce for a half a century AND the golf course has been maintained in a certain manner for that timeframe, what will happen to the habitate without human intervention?  Are they proposing that the seawall be removed so the periodic flooding does not occur?  Remember, that (the pumping of floodwaters) is the Plaintiff big concern.  With the seawall gone, what would become of the hydrology?  Would it still support the frogs?  Kinda sounds like "Beware what you wish for, you just might get it".

Why does this sound more like a crusade to close the course (holes 9-18 is 10 holes, not 9) rather than an effort to work together to accomplish the stated goal?  Seems like the City is doing their part, what construtive activities have the plantiffs been up to over the past 20 years?  You would think that at a minimum they would have been monitoring and documenting the annual population, the number of  egg masses and the number of decicated masses annually. IDK but with over 100 egg masses each having around 500 eggs, well...that sure sounds like alot of frogs to me, even if only a mere 10% made it to adulthood.
Coasting is a downhill process

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2011, 09:42:59 AM »
It seems to me that there is alot of speculation and little hard evidence in the Plaintiff case, while the Defendants have been documenting their actions.  The intersting conundrum is, if no one knows whether the water was originally brackish or not, whether the frog was there prior to building the seawall.  since the seawall has been in plce for a half a century AND the golf course has been maintained in a certain manner for that timeframe, what will happen to the habitate without human intervention?  Are they proposing that the seawall be removed so the periodic flooding does not occur?  Remember, that (the pumping of floodwaters) is the Plaintiff big concern.  With the seawall gone, what would become of the hydrology?  Would it still support the frogs?  Kinda sounds like "Beware what you wish for, you just might get it".

Why does this sound more like a crusade to close the course (holes 9-18 is 10 holes, not 9) rather than an effort to work together to accomplish the stated goal?  Seems like the City is doing their part, what construtive activities have the plantiffs been up to over the past 20 years?  You would think that at a minimum they would have been monitoring and documenting the annual population, the number of  egg masses and the number of decicated masses annually. IDK but with over 100 egg masses each having around 500 eggs, well...that sure sounds like alot of frogs to me, even if only a mere 10% made it to adulthood.

No doubt in my mind, it is a crusade to get the course closed.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 10:53:37 AM »
The Federal judge dismissed the lawsuit today which would have shut down Sharp Park.  Congratulations to Richard Harris for an amazing effort to save the golf course.

More to follow.

Keith Doleshel

Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2012, 11:37:57 AM »
Awesome news!!! I admittedly haven't been following the case that much recently, but that is good to hear.  Congrats to everyone involved in keeping Sharp Park as a golf course.

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Both sides optimstic after Sharp Park hearing"
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2012, 04:45:40 PM »
I've got the relevant motion and order from today. PM if interested. They're not very exciting.

The takeaway is that the motion to dismiss was granted "because the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s October 2, 2012 issuance of the Sharp Park Biological Opinion and accompanying Incidental Take Statement moots Plaintiffs’ suit, and because there is no other basis for jurisdiction in this Court."

I'm trying to get the Biological Opinion and Incidental Take Statement, but it looks like that will take a few days. From the motion it looks like U.S. Fish and Wildlife put forward a plan (the Incidental Take Statement), which if followed by Sharp Park exempts the city from "take" liability under the Endangered Species Act (ESA). Therefore, as long as Sharp follows the guidelines there can be no ESA liability, and without the possibility of ESA liability the case was dismissed.