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Blake Conant

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San Diego area golf
« on: December 11, 2012, 10:27:24 AM »
Morning Everyone,

My family and I are going on a trip to San Diego for the holidays and I wanted to get an opinion on a couple courses to see while I'm in the area.  I'm finishing up my Masters @ UGA in the spring and just completed my last semester of classes Monday.  Needless to say, I'm ready to tromp around on the links for a couple days.

I get in town on the 22nd and will be there until the 29th.  However, my timeframe shrinks considerably once my girlfriend arrives the night of the 25th.  Can't imagine she'd be OK with me leaving for 5 hours to play golf while she gets to hang out with my crazy family.  So really I'll be available to check out courses from the 23rd - morning of the 25th.

I appreciate any suggestions on courses to see, walk, or play.  Thanks in advance and happy holidays.

-Blake

Pete Lavallee

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 10:34:33 AM »
Where to play in San Diego?


Resorts:

Barona Creek     619-387-7018
     This is the must play course in the San Diego area. Just a 30 minute drive from downtown, Todd Eckenrode’s creation in Wild Cat Canyon offers a thrill for every class of golfer. The course features strategic bunkering, scattered at different distances, through the wide fairways. Firm and fast conditions put a premium on attacking from the correct angles to the highly contoured greens. Hotel and Casino on site.

Torrey Pines     (reservations) 619-570-1234
     South:  The host for the 2008 US Open is set up as a test of the modern game. Even from the white tees (6,880) this course plays long. Rees improved the 3 holes he moved to the canyon’s edge (3, 4&14) but 18 double plateau greens are a bit repetitive. Green conditions now finally justify the $180-$220 rate.
     North: The proposed redesign has been postponed, here’s your chance to play what could be William Francis Bell’s best work. Better use of terrain, nicely contoured set of pushup greens, surely the more scenic of the two courses.
     Golfers can show up as early as they want to line up for the morning’s first tee times which begin at 7:00am (cars line up in the parking lot on weekends, during the week you place your golf bag in line in front of the starters booth on the balcony); singles stand a decent chance of getting off through the waiting list in the afternoon.

Carlton Oaks     619-448-4500
     This Perry Dye redesign has all the “dye-abolical” trademarks: waste areas, pot bunkers, bulk headed water hazards and many greens that slope away in the back. At 7,225 75.2/146from the tips it’s definitely the second toughest layout in the County. Lots of fun from the blue or white tees though. Hotel on site.

Del Mar National     858-792-6200
     The only Fazio course in San Diego County; All golfers really want is a thrill; this course comes up short here. Very playable and takes a great picture, but the tea cups at Disney Land are more exciting than this place. Must stay at the Resort to play here now.

La Costa     760-438-9111
     Fans of Dick Wilson will enjoy the artistry of the bunkering on the original tournament course. A complete remodel of the North course was accomplished by Jeff Brauer; it now impractical to play the original tournament course as the grass types for greens and fairways are different.

Sycuan     800-457-5568
     There are two regulation 18 hole courses Willow Glen and Oak Glen. Willow is the more interesting layout with numerous doglegs, strategic bunkering and angled greens. Oak Glen is the more sporty course. Also has an 18 hole par 3 course. A good example of what Ted Robison was capable of before his “dark period”.

Warner Springs Ranch     760-782-4270
     High desert course is both scenic and challenging. The remote atmosphere makes this course special; resort rooms have no TV or phones! Little over an hour from downtown but very close to Barona.


Municipal:

Coronado     619-435-3121
     Jack Daray designed San Diego’s “Hidden Gem”, built on fill dredged from the harbor in the 1957, it has 4 holes that play along Glorietta Bay. Subtle doglegs test driving ability, the pushup greens punish poor iron play, wind is often a factor. At $30/weekday and $35/weekend for everyone, it’s the best deal in town.

Balboa Park     (reservations)  619-570-1234
     Built in 1918 the course originally had oiled sand greens and dirt fairways. William Park Bell supervised the addition of irrigation via a WPA project in 1938.  This short (6,281) trip out through the canyons and back across the mesa has remained a tough track to score on. Sam Snead’s course record 60, shot here while in the Navy in WWII, still stands. Views of downtown and the Coronado Islands, walkups should have no trouble playing here. Recent emphasis by the City to improve the conditions at Balboa Park have made this the must play if you're staying close to downtown; greens are outstanding and the overseeding was very successful this year.

Encinitas Ranch     760-944-1936
     Located ten minutes north of Torrey Pines and five minutes south of Legoland this is an enjoyable and reasonably priced daily fee course. Wide open front nine is complemented by the canyons on the back. Built on the site of a former flower ranch by Cary Bickler, conditions are usually good.

Tecolote Canyon     858-279-1600
     The only Robert Trent Jones course in San Diego County, this is a fun executive course. There are four 300 yard holes where you can “let the big dog eat”. The remaining par 3’s all have interestingly contoured greens. Close to Mission Bay, a round here should take only 3 hours.

Sail Ho!     619-222-4653
     This 9 hole par 3 course was the original site of A G Spaulding’s San Diego CC. It served as golf course for the Navy’s recruits at the now defunct Navy Training Center. A complete redesign has made it an interesting way to spend an hour; minutes away from the Airport.

CCFAD’s:

Maderas CC     858-451-8100
     Built on a hilly site this course promises the thrilling downhill holes off the bat, the key here is how much fun the uphill holes are. Neal Meagher’s perfect mix off unique green sites are worth the price of admission alone. Soon to go private when enough memberships are sold.

Riverwalk     619-296-4653
     Built over the old Stardust CC, this course’s three nines are the perfect example of the Ted Robison “dark period”. Located in the heart of Mission Valley, it is convenient to those staying at Hotel Circle.


Salt Creek, formerly The Auld Course     619-482-4666
     Although built to sell houses you would find it hard to hit one from the golf course. Die hard walkers beware, you must ride here. Cary Bickler and John Cook have crafted some fine holes though, well worth a look if you’re in the South Bay area.

Privates:

Rancho Santa Fe CC
     Don’t pass up an opportunity to play here. Max Behr’s 1929 layout got the highest Doak rating in San Diego County (5). Without a doubt, this is the best of the private clubs. The Rancho Santa Fe Inn allows guests to play here unescorted after 1:00pm.

La Jolla CC
     The two canyon holes are spectacular; there are several other unique holes here, built by William Park Bell in 1927.

San Diego CC
     Another William Park Bell layout with several barrancas was built in 1921. The redesigned greens seem unsympathetic to the Bell style.

Tijuana CC
     The course claims a MacKenzie heritage, but it sure looks like a William Park Bell to me; possibly during his relationship with Tillinghast. Close enough to the border to take the trolley down and hop in a cab for the short journey to the golf course; public access allowed.

Pauma Valley
     The only Robert Trent Jones course in San Diego County is in the high desert just past Barona; once rated within the top 20 in Ca.

Military:

Marine Memorial   GC, Camp Pendleton     760-725-4704
     Set within the expansive Marine base this course by William Francis Bell occupies a peaceful and secluded river valley 50 minutes from downtown. Somewhat shaggy conditioning here doesn’t detract from the enjoyment. Now open to the public.

Miramar, Memorial GC     858-577-4155
     Jack Daray shows how to turn a flat parcel of land into an interesting golf course at the old Top Gun base. Now a Marine Corp Air Station it has some of the best conditioned greens in the County; wind and FA-18’s are always a factor here. Now open to the public.

Sea & Air GC     619-545-9659
      Located on North Island Naval Air Station it is a tale of two nines, the front nine was recently redesigned to make play safer; several new holes were added greatly improving it. The back nine weaves through sand dunes with 3 holes playing right along the beach next to the Hotel Del Coronado. The runway splits the back nine and you’ll have an opportunity to see many types of Military Aircraft practicing their touch and goes. Must have a sticker and ID to access North Island Naval Air Station.

Admiral Baker GC     619-556-5520
     There are two 18 hole courses, with the North Course a good example of architect Jack Daray's work. The course weaves through canyons just east of Quallcom Stadium. A recent greens and bunker renovation has greatly improved comditions. Open to the public now.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 02:46:22 PM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 10:47:06 AM »
Small update on La Costa, as we redid the former North last year, and it is now the Champions.  Definitely worth a play.  It is sad that they don't have the tournament course and I don't think they go out of their way to allow the mixed play now to get the tournament course.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

David_Tepper

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 10:52:04 AM »
"Pauma Valley
     The only Robert Trent Jones course in San Diego County is in the high desert just past Barona; once rated within the top 20 in Ca."

Pete L. -

Not sure I would characterize the Pauma Valley area as "high desert." In any case, the Pauma Valley course is certainly not a "desert" course and it is located in a very pretty spot. It is vintage RT Jones, with the longest "runway" tee boxes I have ever seen.

DT

Pete Lavallee

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 11:14:20 AM »
David,

I decribed Pauma Valley that way because I had never played it! I was able to play there twice this year and was very impressed. The front nine is fairly falt with a large grassed drainage canal that comes into play on several holes. Amazing restaint with the use of water fot RTJ Sr, just on pond that comes into play on the 3rd and 9th holes. The back nine is hilly. The course has amazing width, 40 yard wide fairways with a good 20 yard buffer of rough on each side. Conditions there are imaculate. Greens are very large with six seprate pin placements on each.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Mike Policano

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 11:29:07 AM »
Jeff,

I played La Costa Champions yesterday. It is definitely worth a play. You guys did a real nice job. The bunkers are very similar to those at Pine Tree, another Dick Wilson design. The positioning of the bunkers provide some great risk/reward choices and some excellent angles into greens.

The fronting bunkers at 3 and 9 are very similar to Pine Tree. The course is very strategic and fun to play.  It passed the Pat Mucci test of, can I go back to 1 and play it again?

David_Tepper

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 11:36:42 AM »
Pete L. -

Yes, Pauma Valley is a pretty nice spot. I was there for weekend 2 years ago and liked it a lot. It is almost enough off the beaten path to qualify as a "hidden gem."

DT 

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 11:38:56 AM »
Mike,

Thanks.  Both of those were original Wilson bunkers and simply rebuilt in place.  We did remove a few center bunkers because we thought he just overdid it for resort play, given the TOC is unlikely to come back.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike Policano

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 12:22:33 PM »
Jeff,

Interesting that you took out some center bunkers. One difference from Pine Tree is that at La Costa you can run the ball up on a number of greens. Pine Tree requires aerial approaches to virtually every green.

Gib_Papazian

Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 02:25:51 PM »
With such a comprehensive list above, I'm surprised that nobody mentioned Crosby National in Ranch Santa Fe. Well done Brian Curley track that The Emperor and I really enjoyed several years back. Hopelessly cheesy name, as if there is any sort of cachet associated with the Crosby moniker 35 years after his death. I grew up with the family and played high school golf with Nathaniel - we are all monkeys from the same tree.

Actually, after Barona and Torrey North, Crosby National is #3 on my San Diego list.

That stated, Barona Creek - from an architectural standpoint - is 100 miles better than anything else in the area. Torrey South is a marginal CCFAD that happens to be partially routed along the ocean. The only hole I find reasonably interesting is #3, primarily because the green is located above Black's Beach - known for naked hotties sunbathing.

If they had a micron of intellect down there, Torrey North would be handed over to Mike DeVries, Eckenrode or one of the lesser known geniuses with the time to attend to the fine details. My opinion - I went to Billy Casper Golf Camp there for three summers in my youth - is that the bones of Torrey North are vastly superior to the South. Perhaps not to defend some arbitrary number (since the par/yardage matrix has been rendered irrelevant), but containing topography conducive to constructing a visually interesting and strategically unique golf course.



   

Jud_T

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 02:33:50 PM »


That stated, Barona Creek - from an architectural standpoint - is 100 miles better than anything else in the area. Torrey South is a marginal CCFAD that happens to be partially routed along the ocean. The only hole I find reasonably interesting is #3, primarily because the green is located above Black's Beach - known for naked hotties sunbathing.

   

Bingo.  Barona is the only course I look forward to playing again and again in the area (haven't played RSF or SDCC).  It'd be worth a look to give La Costa a go and see what the boys did there.  Otherwise spend your time here:

http://www.elagave.com/

or here:

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/sandiego/D39285.html
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Gib_Papazian

Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 02:48:05 PM »
Once you're done perusing the tequila museum, here is another one if you venture north to Carlsbad:

http://www.thearmeniancafe.com

Tim Pitner

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2012, 02:52:42 PM »
On the subject of non-golf activities in San Diego, I recommend a hike in the Torrey Pines State Natural Reserve.  You get similar views to the ones from TP golf course, which is its best feature. 

Patrick Kiser

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 04:33:06 PM »
Once you're done perusing the tequila museum, here is another one if you venture north to Carlsbad:

http://www.thearmeniancafe.com

Sorry to say, but ... soon to be NLE if not already :(
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 05:36:09 PM »
Blake,

You didn't ask where to eat, so I didn't offer any suggestions. Don't listen to these guys, none of them live here! For Mexican there is only one choice; best maguritas in town, $5.00 at happy hour using $50.00 a bottle tequila (Fortaleza):

http://www.cantinamayahuel.com/
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Blake Conant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 08:38:37 PM »
some great suggestions.  thanks everyone, especially pete for the thorough description of nearly every course on the western seaboard.   

Pete, if you've got suggestions on restaurants I would gladly take a resident's knowledge.  For restaurants, the more local and true to San Diego, the better.

John Crowley

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 08:57:02 PM »
No one mentioned the Crossings at Carlsbad - for good reason. Stay away unless you like cart ball on massively uneven land at the end of an airport runway. Only one air crash on the course so far, that I am aware of.

Jud_T

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 10:32:18 PM »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Pete Lavallee

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2012, 10:49:22 AM »
Actually, after Barona and Torrey North, Crosby National is #3 on my San Diego list.   

Gib,

Please tell me you have only played 3 courses in San Diego! The Crosby may be OK, but to put it above Rancho Santa Fe CC and San Diego CC seems a bit odd. Heck, even Neal's Maderas must be better; didn't you at least play there during KP I?
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Matthew Petersen

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2012, 11:23:07 AM »
No one mentioned the Crossings at Carlsbad - for good reason. Stay away unless you like cart ball on massively uneven land at the end of an airport runway. Only one air crash on the course so far, that I am aware of.


I'm compelled to chime in every time this course is mentioned, even if I have nothing especially new to offer. Anyway, I agree completely with John.

Terrible, terrible course.

Gib_Papazian

Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2012, 12:30:32 PM »
Pete,

I've had a completely unexplainable brain lapse on Maderas - let's insert that as #2 after Barona. That stated, the idiot owner opted to blow up the three most interesting putting surfaces over the vociferous objection of brother Neal.

My resume does not include San Diego CC, but I assumed that the query was limited to public access tracks. Crosby National really appealed to my eye; The Emperoro and I took an extremely close look at every hole and came to the conclusion that Brian Curley did a great job on pretty marginal land.

Rancho Santa Fe did not especially wiggle my giggle, but let's always keep in mind that my taste is a trifle unusual.

I put Barona Creek on the same level as Stevinson Ranch and Rustic Canyon, which is a high compliment.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2012, 03:00:52 PM »
Besides Torrey, to get the real San Diego experience play Coronado muni. Great views, right on the water, and inexpensive green fees make for a unique golf experience you won't find anywhere else.
For a restaurant choice I would choose any location of Anthony's Seafood.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Will MacEwen

Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2012, 04:03:47 PM »
Blake,

You didn't ask where to eat, so I didn't offer any suggestions. Don't listen to these guys, none of them live here! For Mexican there is only one choice; best maguritas in town, $5.00 at happy hour using $50.00 a bottle tequila (Fortaleza):

http://www.cantinamayahuel.com/

I have no doubt that Pete gives good advice on golf courses.  I also have no doubt that he gives even better advice on the apres-golf scene. 

Jared Kalina

Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2012, 05:30:08 PM »
Blake-

Probably one of the last times you're on the mainland before your dad takes you to China, huh? 

Might I suggest a local delicacy, Joe's Crab Shack?

Also, just hang with your family.  I'm sure Margaret will be happy to soak up all the time she can with her youngest son.


Martin Toal

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Re: San Diego area golf
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2012, 03:27:55 AM »
I asked for advice here on SD golf and was recommended Barona. That was good advice.

My other local favourite is Maderas. I have played it a number of times and never failed to enjoy it. Not cheap, as I recall, but I went back again and again and can remember almost every hole, which is usually a good sign!

I also liked Steele Canyon, thought The Auld (aka Salt Creek) had some unexploited potential, but really didn't enjoy Torrey (either course). Long wait, hideous pace of play, poor condition and I didn't think the courses are actually all that great. Nice scenery, though and if you must play a Tour stop, fine.

Del Mar National I also like, although haven't played it in about 6 years. Aviara was beautifully finished but rather forgettable otherwise. Not cheap either.