Help me sell width

[Bill Brightly]

My club in undergoing a restoration. Bunkers that were either removed (or were on the original plans but never built) are being restored to the architect's designs.

What is not addressed by the plan is returning the mowing lines closer to the original design. Like so many ODG courses, we now have beautiful bentgrass fairways and plush rough areas. I feel that many cool shots have been lost; replaced by boring "hack it out of the rough" shots. I never really "got" the concept of width being fun until I played Royal Melbourne and it hit me like a ton of bricks.

But it is a tough sell to the average country club golfer who simply equates wider fairways with easier golf. Can you point me to good gca threads or other good writing on this subject?

Thanks!

[Alex Miller]

I don't have a thread handy, but I'd try to showcase the fairway-bunker relationships at Augusta. Hard for the general public to argue with ANGC.

[PCCraig]

Is there a significant difference in maintenance costs between fairways and rough?

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

This may be a question (and probably a stupid one) for the superintendents... how easy is it to just mow the rough to make the fairway wider and if the members don't like it, allow the mow lines back to their original place?  

Could this be done on a couple holes, as a trial, to show others what width could look and play like?  

Not that this would happen where i play, but there are a couple holes that i would love to see just a yard or two (maybe three) extra feet of fairway width, especially on the outside of the doglegs, which would 1.) allow a little more space for the not-so-perfect tee ball to find the fairway, and 2.) actually make those teeshots that end up in the rough actually a bit more out of position creating an even more challenging 2nd shot.

either way, Bill, good luck with your efforts.

[Tom_Doak]

Is there a significant difference in maintenance costs between fairways and rough?

Yes, but the difference depends on the grass types.

Fescue or bermuda or paspalum fairways ... not much more $ than keeping them as mowed rough.

Bentgrass fairways in a humid summer climate ... tremendously more expensive than bluegrass rough.

[corey miller]

Bill

Do the members understand the width was present on the course previously and that this expansion would be a critical aspect of any restoration?

Do they know that for the most part the bunkers you are putting in and the ones you are restoring were part of the fairway area?

Aesthetically, do they prefer wide hole corridors with narrow fairways?

At the end of the day what is wrong with "easier"?

Can't your consulting architect use some of his professional currency to make the sale to the members?

I would not make this argument but I recently played a future US Open course that has narrowed the fairways to the extent that they are almost "unfun".  Playing from the back tees I actually had my best round ever.  Could not hit a fairway, had to hack out/lay up almost every hole, and wound up scoring better.

[Mark Saltzman]

Bill, width is the key to lateral strategy. Golfers always have a choice of length to hit a tee shot, but width adds the choice of line.  Width is the key to changing penal features into strategic and interesting features.

There is no better way to explain width than to show it.

Take your board to Southampton and show them before and after pictures. Then take them to St George's. Then go to Plainfield.   Maybe stand on the 8th tee at National for a minute or sixty.

[Bill Brightly]

Bill

Do the members understand the width was present on the course previously and that this expansion would be a critical aspect of any restoration?

First of all, our fairways are currently at least as wide as other area clubs, perhaps a bit wider on average. The members have no clue about the width we once had. I seem to be the only person who stares at the old aerial photos hanging in the locker room... But it seems clear to me that we used to basically cut everything, and probably began adding the bluegrass rough on the 1960's.

Do they know that for the most part the bunkers you are putting in and the ones you are restoring were part of the fairway area?

No



Aesthetically, do they prefer wide hole corridors with narrow fairways?

The average member would probably prefer what seems "nromal" to them, which would include bluegrass roughs that define the fairway and make you pay a price for missing.

At the end of the day what is wrong with "easier"?

Nothing, except the "sticks" will bitch and complain that their handicaps don't travel well as it is, we can't make it any easier...

Can't your consulting architect use some of his professional currency to make the sale to the members?

He is one of the guys I need to convince...

I would not make this argument but I recently played a future US Open course that has narrowed the fairways to the extent that they are almost "unfun".  Playing from the back tees I actually had my best round ever.  Could not hit a fairway, had to hack out/lay up almost every hole, and wound up scoring better.

[David_Elvins]

Bill,


To be honest, I think fairway width is rather pointless without very firm greens and strategic green complexes. 

Here is a nice essay.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/the-shrinking-fairway/

[Tyler Kearns]

Bill,

As mentioned above, width provides real strategic options by offering a wider range of approach angles.  If they are restoring the bunkers to their original locations (I am assuming that would put them into the rough in many instances), it makes little sense to have them surrounded by wide swaths of long rough so that balls do not roll out into them.  The mowing lines should be brought out to meet the newly restored bunkers allowing them to serve their strategic function.

Wider fairways and less rough encourages quicker rounds, and that has to be a selling point for much of the membership.  Clearing trees and brush to enable the bunker restoration (if required) plus converting rough to fairway will limit searching for errant balls in the rough or trees.

Wider fairways are likely to make the course easier for mid-to-high handicap players and those who have greater difficulty playing from the rough (seniors, women), and that is not a bad thing.  Golf is difficult, and that is one of the factors that discourage people from the game.  While we certainly want to keep golf challenging, making the game a bit easier for those that need it is beneficial.  As for the better players, given the day's hole location, while the fairway may be wide, usually a much narrower band is ideal for scoring, so accuracy is still rewarded.

I actually wrote a piece on this for my blog should you care to visit;
http://adventuresingca.blogspot.ca

TK

[Tyler Kearns]

Bill,


To be honest, I think fairway width is rather pointless without very firm greens and strategic green complexes. 

Here is a nice essay.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/the-shrinking-fairway/

David,

Good point. If a green complex is strategically designed, a wider fairway can help re-capture the ideal angle of approach long lost to narrowing fairways.  Where that angle still exists, increasing the width of the fairway creates many more degrees by which a player can be out-of-position, making the approach shot progressively more challenging, without the irritation of playing from long rough where there is little chance of a miraculous recovery.

TK

[Bill Brightly]

Bill,


To be honest, I think fairway width is rather pointless without very firm greens and strategic green complexes. 

Here is a nice essay.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/the-shrinking-fairway/

You raise an excellent point about firmness of the greens. We are getting a little better each year, but there is no question that when it is wet and long hitters can attacj greens with wedges an short irons, it really does not matter. However, I think it really does matter for shorter hitters who must use long irons, hybrids and woods to reach greens. Wider fairways for these players give them a nicer lie, but almost always measn they will have to come ocer one of the greenside bunkers.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Is there a significant difference in maintenance costs between fairways and rough?

Yes

[Jud_T]

The real pitch is that you'll get average hacks like me to join and stay joined 'cause it's fun, playable and not just connect-the-dots golf.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

I think "width" is the dual key to enjoyment and challenge.

One of the problems you might face is the cost to reconfigure your irragation system to accomodate width.

One of the battles you face is the presentation the members see every week on TV with PGA Tour events.

When you consider your heritage, CBM-SR-CB, I think that may be the key to selling it.
Look not just to CB, but to SR and CBM, make that connection with your membership.

It's pretty difficult to argue that CBM created narrow ribbon like, tree line fairways at NGLA.

Good Luck

[Colin Macqueen]

Bill,

This may provide some help.
Best Examples of Strategic Fairways  …  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53610.0.html

Cheers Colin

[Michael Dugger]

Good golfers hit fairways, no matter how wide.

Hence wider fairways are more beneficial to "lesser" players.

Want to speed up play and save time looking for lost balls?

Then make the fairways wider, it will not make golf easier for the expert players, but it will make it a little easier for the hacks. 

[John Kavanaugh]

When I was younger and could hit the ball a long way I would always be disappointed at the end of the day when an old man beat me.  Now that I am that old man, playing bump it down the middle, hit the green and pray to two putt, I understand and appreciate the value of rough.  The only way to beat a superior long hitting player is for the short hitter to gain advantage by playing out of the fairway.  Please, now that I am that old man don't take away my last shot.

[Bill Brightly]

Good golfers hit fairways, no matter how wide.

Hence wider fairways are more beneficial to "lesser" players.

Want to speed up play and save time looking for lost balls?

Then make the fairways wider, it will not make golf easier for the expert players, but it will make it a little easier for the hacks. 

I totally agree that good golfers hit fairways. But they also assess options, and if the fairway is narrow and the rough thick, they won't see many options and play for the middle of the fairway. But if there is width, and fairway beyond (or to the side of) hazards, they will have to consider their options and make risk/reward decisions. Sometimes they'll make poor choices, or fail to execute the more risky shot. So I say OPTIONS perplex the better player much more than lesser players.

[JMEvensky]

So I say OPTIONS perplex the better player much more than lesser players.

Agreed--and this is how you sell width.

For the lesser players,the argument is easy--they'll always have some easy-ish way to advance the ball toward the target rather than dealing with trees or rough.They'll have,at least, ONE option.

As I'm sure you know,selling the good players on width is a little more nuanced.You have to convince them that you're making the golf course harder by making them think.Because of their talent,they'll have EVERY option.

So,basically you have to get all the good players to admit that they're too stupid to figure out their own best option.

This will be a tough hurdle.

[Brent Hutto]

So what is the percentage of courses, the percentage of fairways in the whole world for which replacing 15 yards of rough on each side with fairway will create a more difficult hole?

Bill's task will be very different if his course is designed and maintained (e.g. rock-hard greens and approaches) so that 30-yard wider fairways do not, in fact, result in an easier course. If he's lucky and the extra width truly creates challenges from the ball rolling on fast fairways into bad angles of approach to firm greens then he can preach the gospel of Strategic Golf and maybe find some converts.

But if it's like, what should we say, about 99% of the golf courses in the world then he needs to be selling the course More Fun Even If It Gets Slightly Easier. Which is an argument I have a lot of time for as do most members of this forum. Most clubs for whatever reason have an aversion to anything which will cause their course to be perceived as easier, in which case wider fairways or less rough will be a tough sell.