The Honors Course going to bermudagrass greens...

[John Goldasich]

Has this switch been discussed on here?  Interesting move that I am sure was highly encouraged by the USGA if the HC is to host another US Am or host a Walker Cup.  A letter from the HC president found its way to my email inbox indicating that they made the decision to convert their greens from A-1 bentgrass to one of the ultradwarf Bermuda grasses in the summer of 2013.

I've always thought of the HC as on the forefront of course conditioning and always superbly maintained.  I do wonder, as mentioned above, though, if they received outside pressure to switch.  Thoughts, anyone?

[Chris Cupit]

John,

I have been a member there since 1991 and am not aware of any outside pressure.  Of course I am certain Chris Hartwigger and Pat O'Brien (USGA turf grass guys) are thrilled that David Stone is making the switch as they are huge bermuda guys

The sole purpose of the course was to honor amateur golf and host tournaments to that purpose.  Since most events take place during the summer (July and August in fact) and since the course is closed from mid December until mid March, I think the conversion makes perfect sense.  I think there was some apprehension about converting as some members simply prefer the roll of bent to the ultradwarfs and may be concerned the greens with their severe contours may be too difficult at times if the greens are too hard and fast.

The notion that the USGA or anyone else "demanded" a switch for any future events is not something I would take seriously though.

[John Goldasich]

Chris,

Thanks for the insight.  I think it's a great move and makes perfect sense.  I look forward to experiencing the new greens at some point next year.  It would be great to see the HC host another US Am, or host the Walker Cup at some point soon.  It's one of my favorite places around and I love that it has stayed true to its continued purpose of honoring amateur golf.

John

[Paul Jones]

Chris,

Do you know which type of Bermuda they are planning to go with?

Thanks,
Paul

[Mark Johnson]

shocking...  HC is one of the best conditioned courses i have ever played.   Admittedly, I never played it in august though

[john_stiles]

The Bear Trace Golf Course (Nicklaus) at Harrison Bay State Park near Chattanooga switched to hybrid bermuda greens years ago,  maybe 4 years or so.   The change to the Champion Ultradwarf Bermuda grass for the greens substantially reduced the course's chemical use.

So there is the experience at Harrison Bay, less than 9 miles away, with ultradwarf bermuda for about 4 years now.  I have not played Harrison Bay since the change in greens' grassing.

Council Fire mentioned in the above club letter (now deleted), which is also close to the Honors, switched to hybrid bermuda just this year.

[Mike_Young]

I think Chris Cupit mentions the last remaining reason for keeping bent in the area when he says most of the tournament play was in June - August.  My home club should be ultradwarf presently but the ego will not allow it.  The reasoning is that when the bent is good it is better but they forget that too often the golf conditions are borderline during the "good " bent times.  I think the argument should be based more of when you have the most rounds.  I don't think you will see many State or National Championships played on bent, in the summer, in the South, in the future.  JMO...

[Mark Saltzman]

Chris or anyone else,

(I will show off my lack of agronomic knowledge).. Is there any consideration of switching the closely mowen areas around the greens? My understanding is that all fairway grass is zoysia, which played very sticky. All the closely mown areas which should inspire creativity become repetitive pitches with a 60* and also mean that some of the bunkers/Swales in the runoffs are less likely to be in play.

[Sean_A]

I think Chris Cupit mentions the last remaining reason for keeping bent in the area when he says most of the tournament play was in June - August.  My home club should be ultradwarf presently but the ego will not allow it.  The reasoning is that when the bent is good it is better but they forget that too often the golf conditions are borderline during the "good " bent times.  I think the argument should be based more of when you have the most rounds.  I don't think you will see many State or National Championships played on bent, in the summer, in the South, in the future.  JMO...

I don't know if the course is open year round, but I would have thought the best grass is that which gives the all round best conditions over the year. That may mean taking a slight hit in high season, but getting a great boost in the winter months.  Does this make sense? 

Ciao

[Eric Smith]

Mark,

I can remember playing there several times back in the mid 90's when the zoysia turf sure seemed to play sticky. Apparently, that is no longer the case. I played a round there in August with the superintendent and he and his team had it dialed in where I was able to play run up shots on many of the holes, though I am nowhere near as good at it as Mr. Stone! The man is a ground game guru. He told me that the turf was as good now as its ever been.

What a special place. I can't wait to go back.



The guru in action.

[JMEvensky]

Not certain about the Honors,but frequently at clubs with zoysia fairways the surrounds and approaches are some Bermuda hybrid like Tif Sport.That's pretty standard in my part of the world.

[Chris Cupit]

I think Chris Cupit mentions the last remaining reason for keeping bent in the area when he says most of the tournament play was in June - August.  My home club should be ultradwarf presently but the ego will not allow it.  The reasoning is that when the bent is good it is better but they forget that too often the golf conditions are borderline during the "good " bent times.  I think the argument should be based more of when you have the most rounds.  I don't think you will see many State or National Championships played on bent, in the summer, in the South, in the future.  JMO...

I don't know if the course is open year round, but I would have thought the best grass is that which gives the all round best conditions over the year. That may mean taking a slight hit in high season, but getting a great boost in the winter months.  Does this make sense? 

Ciao

Yes, the course is closed every year from approximately December 15th until March 10th. The course is really a "summer course" and the issue of having to cover and uncover greens during the winter as temps drop to the high twenties isn't a factor for member play. 

I agree that a combination of consistently firm greens and "sticky" surrounds (the zoysia is an older meyers strand I believe that is relatively thicker in texture) would be a negative and it would make sense to use a bermuda or zoysia (diamond) in the immediate surrounds that plays firmer and allows balls to be bounced in if desired.  I am not sure what is planned.

I am sorry to say I have not played a round of golf there this year

It looks like we have begun some tree trimming if that picture of twelve green is any indication.   

[BCrosby]

Chris -

Were you involved in the decision at THC? BTW, say it ain't so that the last time you played THC was when I saw you there last fall.

As a summer course, it's probably inevitable that THC goes to u/d Bermuda. By July, I don't think there is much comparison. The u/d has been gaining strength, bent has begun its inevitable decline until cooler weather returns.

As for surrounds, I have nothing but good tings to say about TiffGrand. A remarkable grass. I'm sure eventually there will be things to complaint about, but  after three years experience with  it at Cherokee, everyone is pleased. Knock on wood.

Bob

[Chris Cupit]

Hey Bob,

Yeah, that was the last round I played there    Thanks for the ideas re: the surrounds. 

As you know our structure is one of a benevolent dictatorship which is great.  I did speak with David and Joe a little and reccomended some places to play to get a feel for the ultradwarfs when they were in Atlanta last year.  Obviously, David doesn't need my "expert" advice as it is far from that but I did speak in favor of the grass from a member perspective.  As a "summer club" that hopes to continue to host amateur events which fall predominately in July and August, I think bermuda is the only way to go.  Also I think it will give the membership the best putting surface for the greatest number of days the course is open each year. 

If we were a year round course and one that saw heavy fall through spring play I may feel differently but honestly given our schedule and our need for the course to peak in the summer, I am thrilled the bermuda decision was made.

Hope all is well!