Muni Golf -- the next wave of ones to play

[Matt_Ward]

Had to mention this but I had the pleasure in returning to Delta, CO and playing Devil's Thumb for the second time -- the muni in town that was well designed by Rick Phelps and finished second to Rustic Canyon last year in GD's best affordable category. During a ten day trek out west I played a smattering of other big ticket courses but few of them could surpass the substance that Rick imbued Devil's Thumb with. The alternate route par-4 13th is a classic hole and one of the finest you can play among all munis I've played. And, that's just one example of fine holes at the course.

The second is the new effort by Jim Engh in Golden, CO called Fossil Trace. Give Engh high marks for creating a routing on
the back nine that is well done given the limited land he had to work with. The only glaring weak hole is the goofy 5th hole -- a short par-3 that needs a major makeover.

I have a few more munis worth noting, but if these two examples show anything it demonstrates what can be done when architects use their vast talent to provide quality golf at affordable levels. For anyone visiting CO they had best keep these courses on their radar screen.

Are there other recent munis in the USA worth noting of this caliber. Be interested in what others have to report. Thanks!

[cary lichtenstein]

Is fossil trace open for play? couldn't find a phone # or web site for it. How would you describe it...I have an open day later this month on my Colorado trip...is it worth playing?

[Brad Swanson]

Matt,
   I thought Fossil trace wasn't opening until late August.  Another extreme Colorado site for Jim Engh as far as I can see on the few times I've driven by the course.


Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Gary_Smith]

Don't know if a grand reopening counts as the next wave, but Harding Park is sure going to get a lot of interest.

[A_Clay_Man]

Just to see the site is worth going to Delta. Abuting the adobe clay mounds with huge red mesas in the distance, Devil's thumb was both a treat and a value.
One thing there that I've always wondered why I never saw anywhere else was a few carts parked between 12 and 13 so the walkers could ride the two severe holes and return them back where they found them after the few holes needed.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

I was in Grand Junction ten days ago and heard a rumor that Devil's Thumb had some major conditioning problems ... salts leaching out of the soils.  Did you notice anything wrong with it, or was this just fast talk?

[Steve Lang]

Matt,

Did you pick up on how much money was spent at these muni courses in their site development or constuction?  Seems like the generic muni venue has the site issues covered either by history or eminent domain and thus could spent a little more in proportion for course details or construction needs than a private effort.

I assume the premium on flat land values in the mountain areas always leaves it more viable for commercial or residential development..  like the Coors brewery layout there in Golden..

[A_Clay_Man]

Tom Doak- I was in delta a few months ago and ever since I'd heard of devil's thumb, it came with that same false rumor about conditioning problems. The golf course had nothing in the way of problems that I could see. Off the golf course is another story. The clay filled soil does make the growing of grass a real challenge but as I intimated above, if you are on the playing surface of the course you are fine. And off the prefered line you'll get what you deserve but certainly recoverable from.

When I was there I heard talk of the city giving the course alot of grief for it's water usage. The politics of which I know nothing but since the course is still open, I assume it was all posturing. It was a real shame to hear that the city that gave this inspired idea was back tracking. But as stated before, all one has to do is see the faces on the local gentry enjoying this wonderful golf course.

In that vien, The Hideout in Ut. also comes to mind as having that same spirit from the community and with the conditoning problems on the mend, it is, and will be one, of the countries best values.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom Doak:

The salt leaching condition you mentioned was more prevalent last year when I played the course with Rick Phelps then (and only at the par-5 5th). That has changed as conditions have much improved on that hole and throughout the entire course.

I really enjoy Devil's Thumb and believe the "perception" of bad conditions have hampered the kind of "buzz" the course should rightly get. I don't doubt that Redlands Mesa is the better conditioned of the two, but the strategic implications of Devil's Thumb are clearly ahead of its neighbor to the north in Grand Junction.

The split fairway at the 13th is a great example on how to build superior shot values and the green site is simply delicious as a back pin can be used that is protected by a frontal slope that would make the folks at Augusta National even blush!

Couple of other things to mention regarding Devil's Thumb -- the greens are in superb shape and although some of the fairways were restricted from carts riding on them I believe such a situation is more to the benefit in giving the turf some breathing time from the daily pounding of the carts.

Couple of other holes to note are the redan like par-3 17th and the glorious strategy you see employed by the devilish par-4 9th! The long par-4 6th is also well done. If anyone gets near Delta bring your clubs because this is far from your basic muni! Kudos to Rick Phelps and the team at Devil's Thumb in giving the visiting golfer a real value.

Adam:

The Hideout is still a good ways behind where Devil's Thumb is condition wise. I don't doubt that the course has plenty of strategic qualities but the turf issues are still prevalent and for anyone to venture to Monticello expecting good conditions, especially on the greens, will be disappointed at this point. I look forward to that changing in the future but we shall see.

To the group on Fossil Trace:

I believe the opening date is sometime in late July but I believe the club can be contacted either directly or you call the Golden Dept of Recreation and get the tel # that way. I really enjoyed the course but clearly there are some gaps -- namely, the par-3 5th which is a major league letdown when compared to the quality of the other holes on the course -- especially the back side. I believe it has the qualities needed to draw plenty of attention and rightful fanfare when people see it. The fascinating thing is what Ron Whitten so correctly pointed out on his review -- the squeezing of the course on such a tight piece of property was well done by Engh. You notice it when playing the course but you never "feel" cramped or bothered by the off-course elements.

One other to mention:

McCullough's Emerald Links (near Atlantic City, NJ) Owned by the town of Egg Harbor Twsp -- this Stephen Kay design is well done and gives you a full range of different design styles -- namely the famed Lido hole which occupies the 7th position at the course and is wonderfully done plus a few other "replica" creations from Ireland, Scottish and English golf. The only weakness is when you cross the road to play the quickly forgotten 15th and 16th holes. The finishing hole is also quite lame as the water hazard is more for show than real strategic vision. Still, Emerald Links is worth a visit and won't break your bank account to play it during prime time months. It's certainly a bettter bet than what you'll find at the tables in AC.

[cary lichtenstein]

Fossil Trace
303-277-8750

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Matt, I think we should really analyze the definition of "Muni" Golf.

If you remember while on the fairways of Rustic Canyon last year, I mentioned to you a few old Billy Bell gems that were full of some really unique and admirable features that you would probably never be caught dead on. Your game simply doens't match to these courses.

But in the Matt Ward school of thought do these courses warrant a look? I think they do, and if you remember, so did David Kelly, who matches up pretty good distance wise to you.

I was recently talking to a local architect out here, who rates one of these courses as a absolute gem. He loves it and does in fact play there. What wave does it fit in? And if you answer that, how do you know if you'll never go there to see it?

Here's to the mediocre wave, and for all which they stand! They serve their purpose well because they aren't incredibly long or taxing, but are loaded with all sorts of quirks and features that multiply the fun!

Cheers

[Forrest Richardson]

Since Matt mentioned The Hideout, here is an update:

The greens were famously infested with chinch bug, a nasty critter that caused a great deal of frustration. Likely, the chinch bugs made their way across the course (in record time, I might add), seeing the drought as a good opportunity to take hold. Fortunately, Jim Robison, the greenkeeper, made a quick determination and the place is now rid of the problem.

I do not consider the green maturation a big deal. Anyone wishing to see the place will simply have to pretend they are back sometime in 1930s and it will look better than any green of that era. However, it is my feeling that you will actually see many very good conditions. A few of the greens and tees being the only exception.

Again, as I've pointed out on other threads: Condition of new courses is, in today's world, expected to be 98% by year one — while we all know that our great classic courses endured many years before they were to the point of acceptance, certainly not 98%. I say we cut some slack to the affordable municipals — especially those built for under a few million and that charge golfers less than $25. Any takers on that motion?

[A_Clay_Man]

Hear Hear

Feeling like the muni guru since I found out about Jacksons Pk's opening date. But I concur that the recognition of certain values be appreciated and certainly building a course for the community, is of the highest order. Without the high price tag, pre-construct or post.

Way to Go! Monticello!!!

[Matt_Ward]

To the group:

Look, so that I'm not misunderstood   -- turf conditions don't have to be perfect but you have to have a surface that a ball can indeed roll on. The green surfaces at The Hideout featured coverings on a number of holes and on some others it took a shoulder turn to get the ball near the hole. I don't doubt for a second the qualities of the holes that are there (i.e. 9th, 16th, 18th, to name just three) and have pointed out several of them on previous threads. But, when I saw the course in early May the conditions were still a "work in progress" and I would caution anyone who is thinking of making the trek to Monticello and expecting something far different from what I experienced. Hats off to Forrest and all the folks at The Hideout because it has the potential to be something very special. However, thus far -- it's more of what might be rather than what is today on the condition front.

Tommy N:

The state of "muni golf" (defined as facilities owned by the taxpayers) is certainly improving and since my roots are from that side of the tracks I take a special amount of time during my travels to find such interesting new layouts of these types. No doubt Fossil Trace will certainly be of interest because of the qualities that Jim Engh has put forward there. Ditto the efforts of Rick Phelps with Devil's Thumb.

Tommy -- muni golf is more than just going to some esoteric design that has just one or two interesting features. I don't doubt the contributions of Billy Bell but you might be interested in knowing that muni golf is definitely coming forward with designs that can challenge all types of players and that many of the promising architects of tomorrow are cutting their teeth with these types of designs. McCullough's Emerald Links near Atlantic City is a good example in matching design qualities with reasonable fees. Others are certainly following in different parts of the country.

[Doug Wright]

Matt/Brad,

Fossil Trace is opening July 31. For personal reasons, I hope the short 5th isn't as bad as Matt suggests...

The back nine holes through the quarry are pretty unique IMO. Here's a link that shows one hole and some of the fossils on the quarry walls  that allowed fossil-huggers to hold this project up for many years:

http://www.geocities.com/jghist/fossiltrace.htm

All The Best,

[Scott_Burroughs]

"fossil-huggers"?  Isn't Anna Nicole Smith one of those?  

[George Pazin]

We've been fortunate enough in Pittsburgh to have some pretty reasonably priced daily fees pop up in the last few years. Last year saw the opening of Cranberry Highlands, a muni by Bill Love (I think). This year we have the opening of Birdsfoot, a public daily fee by Ault Clark ($39 to walk 18 on the weekend). We haven't had too many high end CCFADs (only Olde Stonewall springs to mind).

Who said a semi depressed economy was a bad thing?