How many big "what ifs"?

[A_Clay_Man]

I find myself agreeing with Dennis more and more re:Spy.

All these courses, in this very close proximity, chose to have routings that went into and out of the forest. No doubt for variety, as the old Shore course has/had    and is paramount to keeping not only our interest but increasing the challenge of estimating everchanging variables. (fogline wind being most mystycal) Thinking about sacrificeing a routing for the visual of the chapel, smells like a hernia, to me. Up and back to the shore repeatedly will only increase the need for mechanized conveyence, on both Spy and the Shore.

What if the clubhouse at spy was at the bottom of the hill? It wouldnt be spyglass hill. Which already came with it's own lore.
What if RTJ hadn't cut and burned on site? Would the drainage be better? What if RTJ didn't practically beg for the commision or spent twice as much (600K in 66')?

Pat and all who wonder about Spanish, I can tell you what probably would've happened if the hotel was moved. It wouldn't have been the success it is, and the likelyhood of there being no course would also be increased. But maybe, knowing your ops about the place, it's just inherent in your nature.

WHAT IF, man's constant desire to "out-do" never entered into the minds of the collective architecture?

[RJ_Daley]

What if golf rather than baseball had become the American pass-time and rather than ball fields in every small and large town, golf was provided by the park and recreation departments or recreational golf clubs or societies as a priority, back in the turn of the century?  Would we than have something of the Irish-Scot model of a game and golf course design sensibilities that stressed game and functional course strategy over glitz and marketing?

To some extent we almost had that in the pre-depression and the 30s when work projects like WPA took on park and recreation work projects and we got places like Bethpage and many others, for the public enjoyment.  However, the golf development scene was more oriented to resorts, exclusive private clubs, and homesite amenities, and certain elements about the game and its field of play seemed to have gotten alterered, not for the betterment of architecture or spirit in my view.

[Patrick_Mucci]

A Clayman,

It's not opposition to Spanish Bay, it's just that I think a better golf course could have been built on that property.

You have an affinity for the place, and I understand that.
But, having a golf course where one could play, without the eyesore of a large building in the middle of the golf course, would seem more desireable, especially when the 270 degree view would have been the Pacific Coastline.

One only need to look at Bandon Dunes to see the benefit of putting the hotel and buildings on the eastern side of the property.  Had they done the same at Spanish Bay, there is no doubt in my mind that a better golf product would have been created.   Mike Keiser did it the right way.

[CJ72]

Tim,

As far as other what ifs go......I'll nominate the following:

Sandpines
 

 I'll second that nomination.  I'd go into details and why-fors but my Anger Management class has taught me to go to happy places and not to relive torturous memories of bad places.

 "Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy! . . ."  Stimpy    

I will 3rd that nomination

[A_Clay_Man]

Pat- I agree that the course would have to be better. But in the real world the justification for building a golf course is rarely about the golf.

I haven't been up north yet but I see the advantages of having an obstruction free coastal (or anywhere) g.c.