O/T? Paul Runyan

[Tony_Muldoon]

There was recent thread where his name came up and it seemed like a few of you knew him.

 I first heard about him in an extract from a Rotella book and wondered if it was all true.

Well thanks the Youtube I can see some of it for myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL7nXo61lp0

MMM I remember Rotella saying he ‘handed’ Snead his ball after the stymie, not how it seems on film.  
And Rotella has the distances all wrong; surely Snead’s ball is within 13” of the Cup, didn’t’ that change things?  
And Rotella has him being out hit by 70 yards!!!!!!
  How did he hit so many fairways with a swing that moved all over the place?  
And next time someone yelling “getindahole”  is cited as an example of the fall of modern civilisation, show them those kids fighting for the ball when the match is over.


Here’s a longer film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLhq9waT5Zk

Now he’s being outhit by 100 yards!

Anyway I’ve long been curious. Should I search out The Short Way to Lower Scoring ?

The reality maybe better than the legend.
Would love to know more.

[Pete Lavallee]

Tony,

Runyan definetly contributed to the cumualtive knowledge of the short game. His philosophy was that if both palms opposed each other for putting and chipping your stroke was too "willowy" and you were not close enough to your work. His method had you gripping with each palm turned 45 degrees and each arm forming a 45 degree angle to the shaft. He advocated this method for both putting and chipping. The method is good as it involves no wrist action that can complicate the stroke. The drawback is the with no wrist action longer putts are harder to get to the hole. It is a very effective chipping method, one I employ to this day. I have had second hand lessons from very good players who took lessons from him and his philosophy is rock solid; he really knows the wedge game and has a huge variation in how to play shots that need the added wrist action to cover the longer distance that pitch shots require. I would think that the Short Way to Lower Scores is one of the top 5 instruction books ever written; a must for any golf library.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Thanks Pete.

Just look at these prices you are not the only one who values it.  I've never seen an instruction book that wasn’t a first edition attract such figures.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the+short+way+to+lower+scoring&x=15&y=15  


Abe books is at least as high!

Not available on Kindle!

[Pete Lavallee]

Wow, I can't imagine that it fetches 51 pounds! I lent my copy to a coworker and he never returned it; I never liked the prick anyway! I have never seen it at any book stores, now I know why; it really is a bible of the short game!

[mike_beene]

Corey Pavin putts in a similar fashion,and sometimes chipps with a 6 or 8 from the same putting grip.I have seen the book and wish I had it.Seems like he also putted with a split grip from time to time.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I have been very fortunate to have spent some time with Paul Runyon.  Carl Welty is the foremost Runyon expert--he grew up taking lessons from him at LaJolla, became his assistant there, went up to Washington with him as his assistant.  Runyon was was a wonderful person who loved storytelling.  His most noteworthy pupils were Mickey Wright, Gene Littler, Chuck Courtney, and Phil Rodgers.  In addition, Ceasar Sanudo, KIp Puterbaugh, and Victor Regalado worked with him. 

[Bill_McBride]

Our UCSB golf team played a match against San Diego State in 1962 at La Jolla CC.   I saw Runyon on the practice tee.   He was a pretty small guy.   Chuck Courtney and Phil Rodgers were 1 and 2, SDS had a strong team!

[Pat Burke]

Took a couple of putting and chipping lessons from Mr Runyon when I first turned pro (1988 I think)
I was not a very good chipper, and an inconsistent putter (at best).
I could not get the no leverage set-up to work with the putter.  tried and tried, but no go.
Chipping was a different story.  I learned to take the spin out of my chips, and really
started to hit solid chips.  It was awesome.  I eventually made some adjustments to what he taught
me, but the fundamentals Mr Runyon taught me, are still very important to my short game.

He could not have been a nicer man to a struggling pro like me at that time.

[mike_beene]

Pat,would love to hear a little more. Did he turn you hands under?Seems like he chipped off his left heel from a ball position standpoint.His method seems tougher from rough. .Did he want the toe down?Did you use his multiclub idea?

[Tony_Muldoon]

So with Mr Whitaker watching (now restore to rude health  )  I tried placing my hands at 45 degrees to the club I.e. 90 degrees to each other for putts an chips.

The feeling is really solid and

A)   I need to practice putts more for distance control
B)   Chipping was stunningly good.  3 out of 4 were stone dead!

I goggled for more info but it seems like many people are just taking bits of it ( I admitt I didn’t change from my usual overlap!).

This one says ball just inside your left heel.
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/short-game/chipping/flick_gd0706

this one says back in the stance.
http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/chipping-lessons-paul-runyan

This one suggests not grounding the club
http://www.golfgist.com/golf-short-game-tips.html  

So I’ve just bought one of those expensive copies of his book which will hopefully arrive before the big golf trip that will include practice time.

Would still like to know more form those who met him or have used his method.

(PS thanks for the private IM’S)

[Bill Warnick]

I found his book when looking through my father's golf library. There is a lot of text and explanations about the system. I've been doing it for about 20 years now and even though I don't play too much my short game remains good. It's a good thing since my long game sucks.
The grip is key. Any one who wins that many golf tournaments with his golf swing must have had a great short game.

Bill Warnick

[Pat Burke]

Pat,would love to hear a little more. Did he turn you hands under?Seems like he chipped off his left heel from a ball position standpoint.His method seems tougher from rough. .Did he want the toe down?Did you use his multiclub idea?

Sorry for the delayed response.
I did turn the hands "outward", and separated.  Palms almost facing up.  Eventually moved hands together, but kept hands "out" for a while.  My ball position was more centered, as were most of my iron shots then.  I am 5'5". so the toe was down, which was a little strange at first, and I used SW thru 5 iron with this method for chipping.
For pitching, did not do this.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Due to the Olympics I can't get to a course to practice, but I'm working through the book at home getting used to the feel of things.  He seems very specific about how he wants’ things done. I.e. ball is opposite left toe on a good lie moving further back where there's grass behind the ball.  He is also specific re grip. Some of those instructors are changing his thoughts.

I can see it working on putting but chipping any distance seems a challenge.  He said stick with it and like him you can get up to 50 yard chips!
Will report back in 6 months or  so.