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Ronald Montesano

  • Total Karma: -27
Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« on: June 17, 2012, 02:34:21 PM »
I've heard it said...that there's only one fairway bunker on the Lake Course. Is that a held truth or an invention? Reason I ask is, the USOpen.com site has a video tour of the first 6 holes and Kay Cockerill indicates that the only fairway bunker is on the corner of the dogleg on #6. Earlier in the video, while not in the drive zone, those bunkers in front of #4 green would not be classified as greenside, as they are a good 20-30 yards shy of the putting surface. Thoughts?
Coming in 2025
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~~Sag Harbor
~~~Chenango Valley
~~~~Sleepy Hollow
~~~~~Montauk Downs
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~~~~~~~Some other, posh joints ;)

Joel_Stewart

  • Total Karma: -9
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2012, 11:18:58 PM »
It sounds good but in reality it's not true.

There are a number of bunkers that sit 40 to 60 yards away from the green and the new bunker on 17 is maybe 125.

Of course RTJ Sr. filled in many bunkers prior to his work before both the 55 and 66 Opens.  None of those have been restored and as far as I can tell, none have ever been considered.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2012, 12:06:35 AM »
There is only one fairway bunker in play from the tee.  They just didn't state it clearly.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

mike_beene

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 12:18:00 AM »
And I think the bunker on 16 or 17 was just added for the open and will be removed. Is that correct Olympic Club people?

Gib_Papazian

Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 01:10:54 AM »
Poppycock and bullshit. The pair of bunkers on #1 are at least 25 yards in front of the putting surface. That odd bunker to the right of #4 is not original; I believe it was added in sometime in the 1950's to catch sliced balls going down the hillside, but I'll defer to Joel for a definitive answer. In any event, it is not a greenside bunker.

IMNSHO, the Green Committees (which change more often than underwear) have been disinclined to add or restore any fairway bunkers in part because of this idiotic myth of "one fairway bunker," which some of our members point to as a badge of honor.

i.e. (with chest puffed out) "The Lake Course has no water, O.B. and only one fairway bunker, yet is the toughest golf course this side of Winged Foot West blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda.

Nevermind the creek/slough to the left of #'s 13-15. I guess that does not count as water.

What the golf course needs now that the Open is finished (let us not forget we had the Junior Am, the U.S. Am and U.S. Open over the last eight years) is to ditch the arbitrary rough lines and widen the golf course so players can actually use the contours of the natural ground to direct their ball.

I understand the USGA philosophy and why they set up courses as they do; the trouble is that once the circus leaves town, it takes months to clean up all the elephant shit as the rough lines never seem to return to pre-USGA boundaries. My experience (since the 1981 U.S. Am) is that after a championship, for several years the Lake Course is left as a tiresome obstacle course as a convoluted, machismo driven expression of membership ego.

Those who used to suffer through my idle ranting in years past have read my hole-by-hole didactic sniveling, but the fact remains that unless the Superintendent pushes the rough lines up the high side of the reverse-camber fairways, the presentation of the golf course effectively negates the genius of the routing.

For instance, let us state arguendo, that there is effectively no rough on the Lake Course. In order to fully take advantage of the contours of the fairways (and keep the ball from running into the trees), the suggested ball flight from #1 goes: Fade, Draw, Fade, Draw, Fade, Draw, either, either, Fade, Fade, either, Draw, either, Draw, either, Draw, Fade, Fade.

There is plenty of room for discussion on whether I am right or wrong on individual holes, but a narrow ribbon of fairway with deep grass at the immediate perimeter turns the layout into an 18 hole fight with an angry raccoon that quickly grows tiresome.  

The Lake Course used to include some clever fairway bunkers that, if restored, would add a tremendous amount of strategic interest and alleviate the need for so much rough to "protect" the golf course from low scores - as if that is somehow relevant to anybody not intent on a big dick contest with their neighbors.

End of rant.

P.S. I am actually in favor of leaving the new bunker on #17 and see how it goes. It gives everyone something extra to consider on the the 2nd shot aside from a brainless whack at the ball - usually against the breeze in the summertime.        

      
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 01:50:11 AM by Gib Papazian »

Tom MacWood

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 01:51:23 PM »
I'm not sure if this map reflects the course as built, but based on this I'd say there were plenty of fairway bunkers orginally, and very few trees.



Lester George

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 01:58:35 PM »
Fantastic Rant Gib!  I really like what you said about the circus!  Thanks.

Lester

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 03:50:41 PM »
They play as green side bunkers

Kevin_Reilly

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 05:00:02 PM »
See the below aerial from 1938, which shows (at a minimum, given the resolution) a bunker on the left side of #4 (gone for good reason, I think given the fact that it would punish a drive the tempts the inside of the dogleg along the tree line), left of #9, left of #14, and bottom right of #18.

"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Mike Benham

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 05:41:17 PM »

And no fairway cross bunkers on #1 ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Joel_Stewart

  • Total Karma: -9
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 05:50:02 PM »

And no fairway cross bunkers on #1 ...

Thank you RTJ Sr.

I don't think I've ever seen one person in that bunker.  It's just not in play.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 05:56:37 PM »
I like the bunkers on #1 for the visual effect.  They are 40-50 yds from the green but to first-timers they look like they are greenside.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Kalen Braley

  • Total Karma: -3
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 07:49:22 PM »
While it sounds interesting Shiv, and I really mean that...

I suspect you'd need a hard hat to play the course. 

Gib_Papazian

Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2012, 05:21:42 PM »
When I close my eyes and envision all of the trees removed, I see a Shinnecock Hills type course, except with reverse-camber fairways. One could even take this hallucination a step further, since most of the golf course was grassed atop sand that goes to the center of the earth, and transform the fringes of the playing areas into wild, unkempt dunesland.

Instead of trees waiting for a wayward tee shot - assuming you cut the cabbage - a sprinkling of linksland bunkers and unmaintained area would be a visual treat. My wish for the Ocean Course has always been to let it run wild and free, but the club seems intent upon choosing neither fish nor fowl.

I would not be in favor of denuding the Lake Course, but there is still some tree removal I consider non-discretionary. If I had a chainsaw, the very first thing I would do with it is cut that ridiculous tree to the right of the 18th green. One of the older members was crowing last week that it once caught Tommy Nakajima's ball, but that tree fell down several years ago. There is a reason more whiskey gets sold in our bar than all the other clubs combined.   
    
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 05:26:32 PM by Gib Papazian »

Ronald Montesano

  • Total Karma: -27
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012, 05:47:19 PM »
I love the smell of elephant shit in the morning.

I love the smell of a Gip Papazian linguistic assault of the F*(#ker Du Jour...

Mil gracias, Armenio
Coming in 2025
~Robert Moses Pitch 'n Putt
~~Sag Harbor
~~~Chenango Valley
~~~~Sleepy Hollow
~~~~~Montauk Downs
~~~~~~Sunken Meadow
~~~~~~~Some other, posh joints ;)

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2012, 05:47:30 PM »
My wish for the Ocean Course has always been to let it run wild and free, but the club seems intent upon choosing neither fish nor fowl.
    

I do find it interesting that it's become necessary to have the Ocean as a 2nd, yet inferior, version of the Lake course.  When a return to its "roots" of open, links-like, "wild and free" terrain would provide a compelling alternative to the lovable brute we call the Lake.  This could be a fun and unique golfing experience, not seen anywhere on the West Coast except in Monterey and Bandon.

Maybe when it needs to be rebuilt after the next US Open (think mid 2020's), someone somewhere will have just returned from a trip to Ireland or Scotland or Bandon or Long Island and say "hey, we could do that here!".

WW

Kalen Braley

  • Total Karma: -3
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2012, 05:49:55 PM »
I'm curious what Gib means by "let it run free and wild".

Does this meaning letting the grass grow tall between holes?
Implenting hairy edges on the bunkers?
Not pruning the trees?
Having shaggy fairways and greens that stimp at 7?

Bill_McBride

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2012, 06:34:37 PM »
See the below aerial from 1938, which shows (at a minimum, given the resolution) a bunker on the left side of #4 (gone for good reason, I think given the fact that it would punish a drive the tempts the inside of the dogleg along the tree line), left of #9, left of #14, and bottom right of #18.



Interestingly no bunker on #6!

Mike Benham

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2012, 06:39:31 PM »
While it sounds interesting Shiv, and I really mean that...

I suspect you'd need a hard hat to play the course. 


Spend a few minutes on Google Earth, measure the distances from center of fairway to center of adjoining fairway and you will likely find only 1 hole that there is a realistic chance of bombing a tee ball into the neighboring fairway.
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2012, 02:14:55 PM »
Gib great thought on the Ocean. That would make it a course for the ages. Redo it with no or very few tress and let the land do the talking. We would maybe have a course better than the Lake with a experienced architect there. Not that I want poor Love to starve to death. Keep him on the tit because well we are nice guys.

Kalen Braley

  • Total Karma: -3
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2012, 02:20:48 PM »
While it sounds interesting Shiv, and I really mean that...

I suspect you'd need a hard hat to play the course. 


Spend a few minutes on Google Earth, measure the distances from center of fairway to center of adjoining fairway and you will likely find only 1 hole that there is a realistic chance of bombing a tee ball into the neighboring fairway.

Mike,

You are of course correct, I did take a look, and there is more space out there than I originally thought..

but never underestimate the ability of high capper when it comes to how far offline he can slice the ball, even with a short iron in hand!!  ;)

Carl Nichols

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Only One Fairway Bunker On Olympic Lake Course?
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2012, 04:15:07 PM »
I hadn't ever focused on the Ocean course in Google Earth, but the cart paths are really conspicuous from overhead.