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Will Lozier

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2012, 06:53:09 PM »
I wonder how many of these courses advertise in GD?  I mean GOLF? ;)

Thanks Craig...I mean Greg ;)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 09:03:14 PM by Will Lozier »

Greg Tallman

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2012, 07:40:26 PM »
I wonder how many of these courses advertise in GD?

Probabaly more than one but why would that matter for an article written for GOLF Magazine?

David Kelly

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2012, 09:28:53 PM »
Joe, it wasn't about the courses ability to hold an open, the quality of that open or anything to do with the event. BUT, it all has to do with what the facility was, and what it has become. A $35 course that now costs $175.

Adam,

I agree with everything you wrote but Torrey Pines South was well over $100 for non-residents before the renovations.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Scott Weersing

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2012, 08:44:43 AM »

Here are some other courses that are public that could hold a US Open (long enough, big enough, close to a big city). But I think that USGA has filled its rotation with about 12 courses and will keep using those.

1. Pumpkin Ridge, Ghost Creek, long enough and has hosted two US Women's Open. Also close to Portland.
2. Cog Hill, Lemont, Ill. (Well, it could but that ship has sailed)
3. Ross Bridge, Birmingham, AL. (It could but is probably too hot. Which will be the first bermuda grass course to host a modern Open?)
4. Pasatiempo- (It would be fun but not enough infastructure space, but look what they are doing with Merion)

What other public courses could be ruined by hosting a US Open?


Jim Nelson

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2012, 09:01:27 AM »
Wolf Creek in Mesquite?  That course is probably the most unwalkable venue I have ever played followed by Cascada and El Dorado in Cabo.  And that was on a cool day. 
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Matthew Petersen

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2012, 12:37:35 PM »

Here are some other courses that are public that could hold a US Open (long enough, big enough, close to a big city). But I think that USGA has filled its rotation with about 12 courses and will keep using those.

1. Pumpkin Ridge, Ghost Creek, long enough and has hosted two US Women's Open. Also close to Portland.
2. Cog Hill, Lemont, Ill. (Well, it could but that ship has sailed)
3. Ross Bridge, Birmingham, AL. (It could but is probably too hot. Which will be the first bermuda grass course to host a modern Open?)
4. Pasatiempo- (It would be fun but not enough infastructure space, but look what they are doing with Merion)

What other public courses could be ruined by hosting a US Open?



I thought the Women's Open was played on the Witch Hollow course at PR?

Sam Morrow

Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2012, 09:09:49 PM »
I have the perfect location for a public US Open and it would be played on a course done by a GCA'er! Since Donald Trump can't get an Open let's give one to someone almost as full of crap as Donald. Folks I propose a US Open played at the Jeff Brauer deigned Cowboys Golf Club, Jerry Jones would be the perfect person to work with the USGA. As part of the deal the City of Grapevine will let the USGA use bordering Grapevine Golf Course for tents and such and you have the Gaylord Texan across the street as a host hotel. Plus you have everything around the airport right down the street. If this happens I propose a GCA dinner honoring Jeff at the Bone Daddy's right down the street.

JNC Lyon

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2012, 10:19:41 PM »
TERRY HILLS. Lynch and Montesano know what I'm talking about…

Also, I agree with everything Adam Clayman has said on this thread.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 10:22:24 PM by JNC Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Bart Bradley

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2012, 10:26:38 PM »
I might be alone in this thought..but with a few tweaks couldn't Lawsonia be a fabulous OPEN course?


Bart

Will Lozier

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2012, 10:52:26 PM »
I might be alone in this thought..but with a few tweaks couldn't Lawsonia be a fabulous OPEN course?


Bart

Bart,

It's certainly got the look but would need probably 600 additional yards to appease the USGA?

Phil McDade

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2012, 07:34:25 AM »
I might be alone in this thought..but with a few tweaks couldn't Lawsonia be a fabulous OPEN course?


Bart

Bart:

I posted a few years ago that the US Women's Open should be held at Lawsonia. Lots of space for tents and whatnot -- and although the location is remote -- it's closer to major media markets than Hutchinson, KS, or West Point, MS. The USGA has done a very nice job of late hosting the Women's Open at courses with a lot of architectural interest -- notably Prairie Dunes, Newport, Pine Needles, and Interlachen -- that may not have the length anymore for the men's Open.

Lawsonia plays at 6,700+ from the tips. You could add to that, in some cases, but probably not get much beyond 7,000 yards, in my estimation. And given the width the course traditionally plays at, I'd think you'd need a lot more yards than that to test the men's players. Even at 7,000 yards, the guys would chew it up. But I think it'd be ideal for the women's Open. (Sadly, not to happen, as I don't think the current owners are that ambitious, and nearby Herbie Kohler is -- the U.S. Women's Open this year is at Blackwolf Run.)

Bart Bradley

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2012, 01:33:25 PM »
Phil:

Looking at google maps there seem to be quite a few places you could lengthen the course.  I didn't think about that when I was there so I don't know how it would work at ground level.  I think it would hold up just fine if you could find 450-500 yards.  I agree that the current situation will not allow it to be possible but the question was US-Open "worthy" public venues...

Bart

Phil McDade

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2012, 03:06:00 PM »
Phil:

Looking at google maps there seem to be quite a few places you could lengthen the course.  I didn't think about that when I was there so I don't know how it would work at ground level.  I think it would hold up just fine if you could find 450-500 yards.  I agree that the current situation will not allow it to be possible but the question was US-Open "worthy" public venues...

Bart

Bart:

Here's a rundown:

1 -- No real room to move the tee back, as doing so puts it on the putting green down below. Plays at 418 from the tips; a 3-wood/wedge for the pros.
2 -- Maybe another 30 yards, but that's about it. 431 now, maybe 460. Driver/short-iron. And that's a dogleg in which it's easy to cut off yardage.
3 -- The tee now abuts the entrance road; I suppose you could cut down a bunch of trees on the other side of the road and stick a tee back there. But it's 386 from the tips now, and at most you could go 430-440 yds? Not a long par 4 for the pros, and another dog leg where the corner can be cut.
4 -- You could maybe squeeze another 25 yards out of that far corner of the property; plays at 203 and uphill, typically a club more than usual. Not sure this needs lengthening from the tips.
5 -- 487 par 5 from the tips, and certainly converted to a par 4 for an Open. Like 4, that's a tee squeezed hard against a side of the property, and moving that back much would appear to interfere with players teeing off on 4.
6 -- Lengthened in recent years, now 439 from the tips but downhill so plays less than that. Maybe another 20 yards at best; 460 yards downhill  that -- avoiding the two fairway bunkers left -- leaves another pitch/wedge approach.
7 -- Some funky terrain around here; to lengthen the hole would require moving the tee back and to the left and some tree removal. 161 from the tips; a good target hole, although I'm not sure it would be that great of a challenge for the pros.
8 -- The shortest par 4 on the course @ 339; you'd have to carve a swatch through the woods behind it to add a tee. The room is there, but  even a 100-yard swath through the woods would leave it a mid-size par 4. I'll stop playing Lawsonia if they lengthen this hole like that -- a terrific short par 4 as is with obscure, semi-blind aesthetics that work as a short hole and perhaps not as a longer hole.
9 -- Tee would have to be moved back into the woods and to the right for lengthening -- not sure of the terrain over there. 535 from the tips; you could conceivably get another 50 yards there. Now 535 from the tips; it'd be a downhill tee shot with an uphill second.
10 -- Very little room to move back tees, but not sure it needs it; plays 239 from the tips.
11 -- A hard decision, as to move this to a par 4 from its current par 5 means leaving the short par 5 18th as a par 5 (to get 35-35=70). Hardly any room to move the tee back; this is one of the few crowded portions of the course. Plays to 498 from the tips; you'd maybe have a 510-yard par 5 or very long par 4, depending on 18.
12 -- Not a lot of room to move the tee back, as doing so would interfere with tee shots off 18. 183 from the tips.
13 -- Not much room to move tees back -- 20 yards at most? Tee is squeezed in between 12 green and 16 fairway. Currently 568 from the tips as a par 5.
14 -- Maybe at most another 20 yards back; much farther back and the terrain here falls off steeply and runs into the other course. Now 154 from the tips,
15 -- Similar dilemma to 14 tee -- another 20 yards at most? 394 from current tips with a downhill tee shot.
16 -- Funky teeing area that sits in between 13 fairway and left of 15 green. Lengthening this brings shots from those two holes possibly into play. A strong, uphill par 4 currently as is at 443 from the tips.
17 -- Another tee backed into a corner of the property; I can see adding 20 yards or so through tree removal, but not much more than that. 383 from the tips now; would still be a short par 4 for the pros.
18 -- Either leave as is -- 503 from the tips now as a par 5, a solid par 4 closer for the pros. But that leaves 11 as a very short par 4 to get to par of 70. Lots of room back of this tee, including some buildings, so you could maybe go another 50-70 yards back and lengthen it to keep as par 5 while switching 11 to a par 4.

That's at most 400 yards, for 7,100 and change at par of 70, with some dubious changes (chute-like tee on 8 ). I still think they'd chew it up.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 03:08:53 PM by Phil McDade »

Dan Byrnes

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Re: 10 U.S. Open-Worthy Public Courses
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2012, 03:23:04 PM »
Only played Pound Ridge once.  An afternoon after Quaker Ridge in the morning so not all the memorable by comparison.  Don't recall any place to put the crowds and hospitality tents.  Scenic course with all the stone work but didn't strike me as anything overly special.  Ton of better courses in the radius and doesn't at all compare to Bethpage IMHO as a venue.

Dan

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