Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted

[Andy Troeger]

Brad,
Did Pikewood National in WV get enough ballots to qualify? Its really good, but its also not very flexible (shortest tees are 6,900 yards), so I have to think it may appeal more to the Digest group. I'm still surprised not to see it in at least the top 200 though if it has the ballots to qualify.

[Brad Tufts]

Pikewood, while remote, is a really good, if not slightly penal course built for good players.  The owners and designers have accomplished a great deal on that site, and the vibe is akin to the special places in golf.  I think it deserves a spot in the later reaches the US Top 100.

[Mac Plumart]

Am I missing something or did The Madison Club fall more than 98 spots from 102 to out of the Top 200?

Anyone played it?

Thoughts/comments on it?

[Patrick Kiser]

Brad,

Just a quick comment to say I noticed SDCC shows William P. Bell. and it's been shown to have been a William Watson design before Billy came in.

You might consider adding William Watson to the designer credit line.

[Bart Bradley]

Mauna Kea jumps out to me as a course that seems markedly underrated by the panel.  I find it much better than the higher ranked Challenge at Manele.  It has a much tighter routing and the land is more suitable to golf than the sometimes extreme property on Lanai.

Did this strike anyone else?

What am I missing that holds Mauna Kea so far back?

Bart

[Matthew Petersen]

Mauna Kea jumps out to me as a course that seems markedly underrated by the panel.  I find it much better than the higher ranked Challenge at Manele.  It has a much tighter routing and the land is more suitable to golf than the sometimes extreme property on Lanai.

Did this strike anyone else?

What am I missing that holds Mauna Kea so far back?

Bart

It's also interesting because on the 2012 GW list of best by state Mauna Kea still comes in ahead of Manele.

Personally I prefer Manele. I found it more memorable and I actually thought it did use the land better. Interestingly, one thing I would have favored at Mauna Kea is that it seems walkable, but I wouldn't know as carts are required. I think you could choose not to take a cart at Manele, but that would be an extremely difficult walk.

[Bart Bradley]

Matthew:

I have walked Mauna Kea.  Carts are now required?

It is a nice walk.

Can you explain your preference for Manele? 

Lots more forced carries at Manele.  Very odd disjointed routing...especially around that par 3 by the ocean.  The par 3 early in the round at Manele requires a huge retaining wall to create the hole.  It would be a death march of a walk.  The fairway contours at Mauna Kea are much more interesting, IMO.  Very few lost balls at Mauna Kea, except on the famous ocean-side par 3.

Matthew, have you seen Mauna Kea since the most recent work approx 3 yrs ago?

Bart

[Richard Choi]

I prefer Manele over Mauna Kea as well. I played Mauna Kea last year.

I like Manele's variety of greens. There are raised up ones as well as ones that are designed to accept run up shots. Mauna Kea is strictly raised up greens with pretty much two bunkers guarding every green approach. Manele is just more enjoyable round.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have played both Mauna Kea and Manele a few times.  I think MK is a better test of golf.  I really like the terrain and greens complexes.  I also think it is more demanding off the tee.  But, Manele's i like the proximity to the ocean and the holes along the ocean are absolute stunners.  If I had to choose one to play it would be Manele because of the dramatic backdrops.  If I were to pick what I think is the best course it would be MK.

[Matthew Petersen]

I saw Mauna Kea before the recent work, and that work looks good, but it still doesn't solve the primary issue I have with that course (and bear in mind I like the course a lot) which is that the routing does nothing for me. I far prefer the way the holes at Manele are routed along the hillsides vs. those holes that play directly up and down the hills at MK. My understanding when I was at MK was that they wouldn't allow walkers and the walking golfer website has it listed that way as well. If true, that makes very little sense. It would seem perfectly walkable, but you know how resorts can be...