[Joe_Tucholski]

The volume of notes I have from chapters V, VI and VII is significantly less than previous weeks.

In the chapter titled "Adapting the Course to the Ground" the sections I found most interesting were the sections where Thomas describes distance determinations.  He stated on page 197 (electronic 248) "do not judge of your distance by pacing; check them by shots and by accurate measurements with instruments."  I've read Mackenzie determined the placement of the 16th tee at Cypress Point by having someone hit shots from different points.  Have far more accurate measurement instruments, like GPS, ended the practice of having players hit shots to determine appropriate hole lengths?  I've read threads that people are playing the Doak course at Dismal but I didn’t think there was a practical reason for it.

"The Ability to Create" is the only chapter I have zero notes on.  I wasn't all that interested.  My only comment is I assume CAD is the new version of clay.  Are there any architects who still create models of their greens in clay?

As Garland stated last week Thomas can be a bit prescriptive.  "The Balance of Area" definitely proves this point.  Thomas provides ratios for tee sizes, fairway widths and green sizes based on different factors.  Really the only thing that stuck out to me was the recommendation that mats be used on tees at municipal courses.  I've seen a number of affordable par 3's that use mats on their tees does anyone know of a regulation 18 hole course where mats are used for tees?  I've read St Andrews requires the use of mats for all shots during the winter months, which is essentially the same idea.  Is the use of mats in the winter a common occurrence at high end courses in the UK?

[Garland Bayley]

...does anyone know of a regulation 18 hole course where mats are used for tees? ...

Doesn't Harvest Farms (not sure on the name) where they played the Solheim Cup a couple of years ago have one teeing area so restricted by trees and such that they use a mat instead of grass?

[Ross Harmon]

...does anyone know of a regulation 18 hole course where mats are used for tees? ...

Doesn't Harvest Farms (not sure on the name) where they played the Solheim Cup a couple of years ago have one teeing area so restricted by trees and such that they use a mat instead of grass?

Yes. Rich Harvest Farms. I haven't played there, but Colton wrote about it on his blog.

http://www.wegoblogger31.com/2007/09/rich-harvest-realization.html

[Garland Bayley]

Perhaps the best known use of golf shots in determining the architecture is Bobby Jones hitting shots for Alister MacKenzie at Augusta. This comment in the book did not surprise me in the least.

[Garland Bayley]

The bit that impressed me the most was the discussion of standing at the proposed tee and considering the strategy of the various shots. In particular he hypothesized a shot that would be played to the left of a trap onto a ridge that would bounce the ball back towards the center but although the shot landed even with the trap, it would be carried further along by the added roll back towards the center. He concludes the player not choosing this shot would have a dogleg around the trap, and have "a much longer shot to the green".

I'm not seeing it. It seems to me that the trap would have to be of epic proportions to cause "a much longer shot to the green." The other thought that occurred to me is that before the modern ball, small gains in distance led more quickly to longer clubs being used, so if somehow 30 yards is gained by playing to the more difficult tee shot, then with old technology and ball that may add 4 clubs to the approach whereas with modern technology and ball it may be only two clubs.

I guess that leads to the question, has the USGA's failure to regulate the ball satisfactorily led not only to courses being obsolete, but also to GCA books being obsolete?
 

[Tom_Doak]

The volume of notes I have from chapters V, VI and VII is significantly less than previous weeks.

In the chapter titled "Adapting the Course to the Ground" the sections I found most interesting were the sections where Thomas describes distance determinations.  He stated on page 197 (electronic 248) "do not judge of your distance by pacing; check them by shots and by accurate measurements with instruments."  I've read Mackenzie determined the placement of the 16th tee at Cypress Point by having someone hit shots from different points.  Have far more accurate measurement instruments, like GPS, ended the practice of having players hit shots to determine appropriate hole lengths?  I've read threads that people are playing the Doak course at Dismal but I didn’t think there was a practical reason for it.

"The Ability to Create" is the only chapter I have zero notes on.  I wasn't all that interested.  My only comment is I assume CAD is the new version of clay.  Are there any architects who still create models of their greens in clay?

As Garland stated last week Thomas can be a bit prescriptive.  "The Balance of Area" definitely proves this point.  Thomas provides ratios for tee sizes, fairway widths and green sizes based on different factors.  Really the only thing that stuck out to me was the recommendation that mats be used on tees at municipal courses.  I've seen a number of affordable par 3's that use mats on their tees does anyone know of a regulation 18 hole course where mats are used for tees?  I've read St Andrews requires the use of mats for all shots during the winter months, which is essentially the same idea.  Is the use of mats in the winter a common occurrence at high end courses in the UK?

Joe:

The use of mats is indeed common on UK courses during the winter months, at least at North Berwick and Ballybunion, in addition to St. Andrews.  It is probably not done so much at private clubs as at the big tourist venues.

As for our hitting shots in the dirt at Dismal River, or elsewhere, we do it to have fun but also to gain perspective.  I know how far people SHOULD hit it and I can put those points on a map, but how wide the hole actually plays when you're hitting from a high tee into a strong crosswind is not as easy to compute as it is to just go out and see.  We like to see people's misses and where they wind up and whether they are likely to lose a ball, before the course is open to paying customers.  I also know the course is walkable because I've carried my bag around 18 holes twice now.

[Garland Bayley]

"to change them so that they will not penalize a correctly played effort."

Mac,

Still sounding like Behr and not Crane to you?

[Joe_Tucholski]

As for our hitting shots in the dirt at Dismal River, or elsewhere, we do it to have fun but also to gain perspective.  I know how far people SHOULD hit it and I can put those points on a map, but how wide the hole actually plays when you're hitting from a high tee into a strong crosswind is not as easy to compute as it is to just go out and see.  We like to see people's misses and where they wind up and whether they are likely to lose a ball, before the course is open to paying customers.  I also know the course is walkable because I've carried my bag around 18 holes twice now.

Tom thanks for the reply.  Exactly the sort of thing I was wondering about.  The way I'm reading your response when a course is open to pre-play things are much more flexible and if changes are necessary (like tee placement or fairway width) they can made with greater ease, but with technology and general rule of thumb design these sort of changes SHOULD not be required as often as in the early 1900's when the contours and the characteristics of the turf played a much larger factor on the distance the ball traveled.

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