[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally thanks for the reply
Just curious to know the reason 12 was closed all season, I assume it was winter damage but always thought it was 14 that got the brunt of it.

Tim,

When the new nine was built, it utilised the location of the 12th tees for its 4th tees (short par-3)... We then terraced the 12th tees on the hill behind which started to soften the dogleg.... The 12th hole had always been a little sharp and awkward so we decided to redesign the hole by creating a fairway over the dunes to the right of the old tight valley corridor that the hole used to play through. By offsetting the fairway and softening the turn, it should give players more options from the tee. In addition, we then lowered the green about 10 feet and whilst still very much placed on a shelf, it looks a little more natural than it did previously. It has also been lengthened from about 19m to 38m, allowing us to remove the back berm and create longer views out to sea.

Given the construction methodology, this work put the hole out of commission for the whole year.

[Adam Lawrence]

Ally thanks for the reply
Just curious to know the reason 12 was closed all season, I assume it was winter damage but always thought it was 14 that got the brunt of it.

Tim,

When the new nine was built, it utilised the location of the 12th tees for its 4th tees (short par-3)... We then terraced the 12th tees on the hill behind which started to soften the dogleg.... The 12th hole had always been a little sharp and awkward so we decided to redesign the hole by creating a fairway over the dunes to the right of the old tight valley corridor that the hole used to play through. By offsetting the fairway and softening the turn, it should give players more options from the tee. In addition, we then lowered the green about 10 feet and whilst still very much placed on a shelf, it looks a little more natural than it did previously. It has also been lengthened from about 19m to 38m, allowing us to remove the back berm and create longer views out to sea.

Given the construction methodology, this work put the hole out of commission for the whole year.

Ally - I'm just trying to visualise that, it sounds as though it could be pretty cool. Can you post some pictures?

[Tim Johnson]

Thanks Ally
From your description and the reasoning behind it, it will make Carne even better. Although I respect the general comments about the back to back, I kinda liked the tee shot on 12, but I have a big soft spot for Carne and Hackett. You have done a great job at my favorite course and now need to get back.

All the best over the holidays.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Adam, I'm confident it will turn out well. The fairway now forms an horizon and disappears for about 100 yards before reappearing at the corner (although heads will be visible). No photos at the moment. The grass lines will make a difference to the final appearance. Also once the original fairway is allowed to grow back to wispy fescue.

Tim - I believe the final hole will be more playable than the original version and therefore offer a couple more options.

Ally

[Thomas Dai]

Ally,
Has the 11th hole been altered at all? I heard a rumour of a change but am not confident in the accuracy of the source!
Very much looking forward to another visit to Carne. Special place.
Atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally,
Has the 11th hole been altered at all? I heard a rumour of a change but am not confident in the accuracy of the source!
Very much looking forward to another visit to Carne. Special place.
Atb

Hi Thomas. The 11th hasn't been worked on at all and there are no plans to. Your source must have been confusing 11 and 12.

[Thomas Dai]

Ally,
Has the 11th hole been altered at all? I heard a rumour of a change but am not confident in the accuracy of the source!
Very much looking forward to another visit to Carne. Special place.
Atb

Hi Thomas. The 11th hasn't been worked on at all and there are no plans to. Your source must have been confusing 11 and 12.

Splendid news. I like the 11th, but then again I like the whole damn place and am very keen to get back!

Atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

OK, OK,

I know people don't really want to look at more meaningless rankings... But Irish Golfer Magazine started to carry the mantle in around 2016 when Golf Digest Ireland started to implode. I sit on their panel of 8. It's a bit of fun. 2020 rankings as attached (with photos and small write-up on each course - might give you an idea of many courses not talked about on these pages):

https://irishgolfer.ie/top-100/2020/01/13/the-irish-golfer-top-100-courses-in-ireland-2020/

[Sean_A]

Ally

What are a few courses on the list which don't get a mention on this board that you highly recommend?

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Northwest GC at #92..... If you only had played there, that list would certainly make one want to play the 91 ranked ahead of it.


Parklands seem to be highly valued on this list.



My parkland resume in Ireland is certainly lacking and I've enjoyed the ones I've played
The few I've played in my order
Killarney Mahoney's Point
Carlow
Cork-is that parkland?
Mount Juliet
Killarney Kileen
Kilkenny
Parknasilla

[Jeff Schley]

Ally,
Good catalogue of courses and like the photos to give sense of place.  I didn't realize Pat Ruddy was so involved at other sites as a architect.  Also I have to say I'm glad I didn't play The European Club before the "softening" as I played it last year and was a brute.

[Tom_Doak]

OK, OK,

I know people don't really want to look at more meaningless rankings... But Irish Golfer Magazine started to carry the mantle in around 2016 when Golf Digest Ireland started to implode. I sit on their panel of 8. It's a bit of fun. 2020 rankings as attached (with photos and small write-up on each course - might give you an idea of many courses not talked about on these pages):

https://irishgolfer.ie/top-100/2020/01/13/the-irish-golfer-top-100-courses-in-ireland-2020/

If you want it to be taken seriously, having Royal County Down at #4 and Ballybunion at #8 in Ireland [both behind Adare Manor] makes it an uphill battle.  I'm sure you have your reasons, but you're also thumbing your nose at international opinion.

[Ally Mcintosh]

OK, OK,

I know people don't really want to look at more meaningless rankings... But Irish Golfer Magazine started to carry the mantle in around 2016 when Golf Digest Ireland started to implode. I sit on their panel of 8. It's a bit of fun. 2020 rankings as attached (with photos and small write-up on each course - might give you an idea of many courses not talked about on these pages):

https://irishgolfer.ie/top-100/2020/01/13/the-irish-golfer-top-100-courses-in-ireland-2020/

If you want it to be taken seriously, having Royal County Down at #4 and Ballybunion at #8 in Ireland [both behind Adare Manor] makes it an uphill battle.  I'm sure you have your reasons, but you're also thumbing your nose at international opinion.

Tom,


I’m one of 8 and actually disagree with trying to rate 100 Irish courses - far too many but c’est la vie.


I agree with you on Ballybunion. But I don’t necessarily agree with you on RCD (which is ahead of Adare). International opinion does not mean it is correct.


For what it’s worth, my top 6 (this year) was:


1. Portrush
2. Lahinch
3. Portmarnock
4. RCD
5. Ballybunion
6. Baltray


To be honest, those are my six clear front runners and I could change the order most days.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally

What are a few courses on the list which don't get a mention on this board that you highly recommend?

Ciao

Sean,


Portumna is quite cool. The photo on the website typically is the one with trees and water. But the rest of the course is through a nicely undulating, open parkland with deer wondering about.


Carlow (which you probably know) is Ireland’s closest answer to the Surrey heathlands.


Ballinrobe is Eddie Hackett’s best inland course.


Lough Erne is a big, modern lakeside course with spectacular holes (some really good and a couple a little awkward) and interesting green contours.


Curragh is Ireland’s oldest course built on common land, maybe think Minchimpton but unfortunately much more manicured these days.


Don’t forget the short, sporty links at Arklow - nice greens


Most people pass the Royal Belfast / Malone / Belvoir Park trio.


And then at the top end, Murvagh seems to be getting forgotten.

[Dan_Callahan]

Glad to see Narin & Portnoo ranked higher than I usually see it. Even so, I would move it up further, ahead of Murvagh, Connemara, and Portsalon.

[Padraig Dooley]

I find the Irish Golfer ranking to be very anomalous, for example can anyone justify Tralee to be ranked ahead of Ballybunion and then at the other end of the scale Moyvalley, which is bland in the extreme, at 74 and just ahead of it at 71 is Ceann Sibeal at Dingle which is a joy to play.
In the middle of the rankings you have Old Head at 31 and ahead of that there's courses like Fota, Royal Dublin, Kileen Castle and Slieve Russell and if you'd ask the vast majority of golfers would they like to play the Old Head or the other 4, I doubt you get any saying any of the 4 ahead of it.
The other course I find always ranked way to high is the Montgomery course at Carton House, it really isn't very good at all.
 

[Niall C]

Ally


Obviously I'm not one to pick fights    but I tend to agree there is nothing wrong with thumbing your nose at international opinion especially when a lot of that comes from visitors doing the usual circuit with their opinions heavily influenced by overseas raters who also are following the herd.


That said, I agree Belvoir and Malone are well worth a visit, although not sure that Royal Belfast is as good. Murvagh however, is that not the biggest missed opportunity in Ireland ?


Yours sincerely


The Occasional Visitor

[Lou_Duran]

A ranking of the Top 100 out of 16,000 courses draws a lot of scorn.


What can be said of a list ranking the Top 100 out of 350?  Great for marketing?


But I've sent the link to three likely travelers to Ireland in the next year or so.  A nice resource for further research and planning.


Over the years I've spoken to maybe 50+ golfers who've played many of the big names and some in the second tier.  The course that gets the nod for "best" or "favorite" by a large margin is Old Head.  A mate did the tour of the Bigs in 2019 and The European Club was his #1.  RCD is mentioned occasionally as a great course, but not with a lot of affection (too hard, too many blind shots, too much luck involved).  Portmarnock is acknowledged as a great test, but does not seem to arouse much passion.


I've only played the top 4 in Ally's list and disagree only in the order.


1. Portrush- 1
2. Lahinch- 3
3. Portmarnock- 4
4. RCD- 2


Thanks for the effort.  I wish I could understand the disconnect with how the ROW looks at golf courses and the way we do.  It might have, I think, something else more to do than our self-ascribed higher level of sophistication.   

[Ally Mcintosh]

It should be noted that I don’t edit this list. For one (very long) day a year we all sit down and compile it. For me, it provides a little light relief and something different.


Lou: I agree rating 100 courses from 350 is a fool’s game. As we get to the bottom, it is somewhat like random number generation. That said, the last 10 garner a huge amount of discussion. If it were down to me, I’d run a Michelin Star style guide where I’d likely have six three star courses, nine two star courses and about 20 one star courses. Make any moves or new entries a big deal.


Padraig: There are definitely a few anomalies. Ballybee dropped last year as they completely lost the course in the drought. For whatever reason, a couple of the panel clearly rate Tralee over it. So be it. I’m not sure if you agree but I certainly believe the Irish (as a generalisation) do not see RCD and Ballybunion as world beaters like the international audience do? This also to Niall’s point and a thread we’ve run on here before: There are a few well respected courses in GB&I that are ranked differently by their home audience. Not many but a few. Who is “right”?


Old Head just doesn’t seem to float the boat of the eight in the room. Another eight might think differently.

[Padraig Dooley]

Padraig: There are definitely a few anomalies. Ballybee dropped last year as they completely lost the course in the drought. For whatever reason, a couple of the panel clearly rate Tralee over it. So be it. I’m not sure if you agree but I certainly believe the Irish (as a generalisation) do not see RCD and Ballybunion as world beaters like the international audience do? This also to Niall’s point and a thread we’ve run on here before: There are a few well respected courses in GB&I that are ranked differently by their home audience. Not many but a few. Who is “right”?


Old Head just doesn’t seem to float the boat of the eight in the room. Another eight might think differently.

The big drop because of the 2018 drought for BallyB made no real sense as they was plenty of other courses that had drought issues but those issues were overlooked.
I think home audiences rank courses differently as they include price and other considerations into rankings as opposed to just the golf course. Also golfers tend to rank courses they have played more recently more favourably over ones they haven't played in a while, which may give a reason behind the 'lowly' ranking of RCD and BallyB.

[Thomas Dai]

Might be worth bearing in mind that visitors from elsewhere mostly play such courses in the main season whereas locals are more likely to play them all year round.
atb

[Sean_A]

Ally

What are a few courses on the list which don't get a mention on this board that you highly recommend?

Ciao

Sean,

Portumna is quite cool. The photo on the website typically is the one with trees and water. But the rest of the course is through a nicely undulating, open parkland with deer wondering about.

Carlow (which you probably know) is Ireland’s closest answer to the Surrey heathlands.

Ballinrobe is Eddie Hackett’s best inland course.

Lough Erne is a big, modern lakeside course with spectacular holes (some really good and a couple a little awkward) and interesting green contours.

Curragh is Ireland’s oldest course built on common land, maybe think Minchimpton but unfortunately much more manicured these days.

Don’t forget the short, sporty links at Arklow - nice greens

Most people pass the Royal Belfast / Malone / Belvoir Park trio.

And then at the top end, Murvagh seems to be getting forgotten.

Ally

Thanks.  I agree Donegal gets lost in the shuffle as it is a very good course. 

On the strength of its few quirky holes, Lahinch comes out top in Ireland for me...though it is a close call with Ballybunion Old, The Island and Co Down all being terrific courses.  Portrush and Portstewart (controversially) would round out my top 6. Although Portmarnock and Co Sligo could just as easily slip into the top 6.  That said, I suspect with the new holes, Portrush would climb the ladder...maybe to #1. 

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

I walked Portrush 2 days during The Open.  The two new holes are not fantastic but they are better than what they replace.


The new routing works and for all sorts of reasons I see it as No 1 in Ireland now.  I expect the press GB&I ratings to also improve and you can make a case for it as Top 3 overall. With 2 more Opens in the bag I don't see it dropping at all in the medium term.


(Feel a little guilty writing this. Sorry Lahinch )

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