Torrey Pines South - Redesign

[Matt_Cohn]

Hi all,

My first post as a "member". As you may know, Rees Jones recently completed a redesign of Torrey Pines South. I walked the course about a month ago and took a few pictures as well.

Within the next day or two I plan on writing a post about the changes, with some pictures included (if I can figure out how to do that!) Please show some love for the new guy and check out my post!  

TPS is now about 7,600 yards    , par 72. The routing is the same, but every green and tee was redone, many were moved, and the bunkering is completely new. More details soon!!!

Matt Cohn

[RJ_Daley]

Matt, looking forward to your post about the results.  I took a look at the begining of the project in August.  I posted some info and comments I obtained from the County parks superintendent then.  I believe that we will see an instance where Rees will finally be given credit for a remodelling job that will make a course vastly superior to what it was before his work.

If you can't post pictures due to not having your own source web site, would you send me a few picture files by e-mail?  

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Matt,
Email me if you can't post the pictures and I will help you out.

Good to see you posting, I am very sorry about the scorecards, I will figure out a way to get some more out.

Regards
Ben

[Paul Richards]

When I played Torrey Pines about 15 times in the late '80's was nothing more than a cheap golf factory.  Certainly nothing all that special.

So I am really looking forward to seeing the changes that have been made recently.  Is it really better, or just longer?

[Matt_Cohn]

Here is a link to my web page with the Torrey Pines review:

http://students.ou.edu/C/Matthew.A.Cohn-1/gca.html

In the future I will try to post pictures on the discussion board!

-Matt

[Craig Van Egmond]

Matt,

        Nice pictures.   Have you played many of the courses around Norman?  How's the Jimmie Austin course?

[Chris_Clouser]

Thought I would bump this up and see what everyone thought of the redesign at Torrey Pines.

[Matt_Ward]

I agree with Paul -- I've played Torrey at least four times in the 80's and clearly it was nothing more than a cattle stock yard mentality -- get'em out and get'em in.

I have deep reservations but am willing to see what others who have since seen / played it have to say.

Only wish there are other western venues besides Pebble and Olympic in play for an Open.

I wonder -- will the changes made be in effect for the Tour event in 02?

Thanks.

[A_Clay_Man]

Calling that a renovation (clubhouse) is a bit of an understatement, isn't it? My recollection from 8 years ago was a low profile staters box and coffee shop. That thing in the pic looks like Bill gates's new house. Or is it me?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I'll be having some time New Years week, and will get down to Torrey to check it all out too.

Matt, thanks for posting the site address for the pictures.

[Paul Richards]

Matt:

You asked about other West-coast Open courses:

the best candidate is Los Angeles Country Club.

Now all's we have to do is get their membership to to allow it ...

[Matt_Ward]

Paul:

I always knew that the USGA would love to have the North Course at LACC -- thanks for the heads-up. You would think the USGA might try other west coast sites near metro areas --this has been mentioned on a past thread some time ago.

I'd really like someone to post in greater detail what's been done to the South Course at Torrey? Will those changes be in play for the 02 PGA tour event??? Have they simply extended tees to get the length figure cited??? Greens changed? I'll be calling Rees Jones in the next few days to get his take since he did the work.

Tommy N -- will look forward to your take when you see what's happening.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Matt, I have tried three times, post all typed out to voice my thoughts, and everytime somehow accidently hilight the text and erase it all!

First off, the chances of the US Open coming to THE Los Angeles Country Club are about as good as Andy North winning the US Open for a third time.

The course does not have nearly enough length, and room to house such an event. Where are they going to put all of the record-sized crowds that would attend such an event? What about the all so important hospitality tents?

Another glaring disaster is the repetiticious bunkering on many of the holes on the back nine.

I can only further add......

Place your money on........

Torrey Pines-South, which now looks to be exactly what the USGA looks for in holding a US Open.

I can hardly wait to lay my bets on the line! My predicitions are either Andy North, Oline Browne, or Ronan Rafferty to win it all, only after a grueling 36 hole play off.

It is at that time I will ceremoniously stick hot needles in my eyes, swearing to never watch the US Open ever again.

[Gib_Papazian]

I'm not interested starting another argument about judging a golf course from pictures, but those photos looked awfully Rees-like . . . . .

That said, there was nowhere to go but UP from where it  stood in the pecking order of my list of "notable" courses.

Torrey Pines South IMHO, was (is?) a simple awful golf course. A brainless slog bereft of even the tiniest measure of interest. Muni bunkering, boring putting surfaces that don't tie into anything and the most over-rated finishing hole I've ever played.

ANYTHING would improve it . . . . .

Now, the North Course (with much cooler land) is a different story altogether. That is a superb course waiting to happen. All it needs is somebody with vision who won't treat it like it is the "other course."  

Todd Eckenrode, white courtesy telephone please . . . . Todd Eckenrode, white courtesy telephone please . . . . . . .

Maybe you and Nacccarato ought to take a crack at it. It's in your neck of the woods.  

[Tommy Naccarato]

Gib, You pretty much called it all right there.

The South is just a long, boring and dumb golf course that has a few so so golf holes and only gets mention because of a certain golf tournament that resides there. The North course however is the somewhat mild charmer that is nothing more then a tour of a pretty cool place. I like it much more then the South.

Anyone that doesn't WALK want to walk both Torrey Pines courses should be shackled and beaten for insolence.

[THuckaby2]

Hmmm... I might be about to be shackled....

For a brief bright shining 9 months in the mid-80's, I lived in San Diego, had a resident card, and played each Torrey course about 25 times at least.

I likely rode at least half those rounds.

Why?

Because with all the freakin' tourists, it took so long to freakin' play, and waiting for 45 minutes on every freakin' tee, I wanted a place to freakin' sit!

Freakin' got it?

The choice to walk or ride is rarely so simple.

BTW, after many playings, the novelty of the north course wears off.... I started out like you blokes, bored by the south but intrigued by the north... but that completely turned 180 after about 10 rounds on each.  

As for the Reestoration here, who knows.... I'll have to check it out some day.

TH

[Matt_Cohn]

I wrote a nice long post last night and my computer froze before I could post it, so here I go again!

This is mostly in response to two members' posts.

Matt Ward - Please post any more questions you have about TPS. The changes have already been made and will be in effect for the 2002 Buick. The course probably will not open for play until then.

As for the greens, they are fairly typical Rees I think - they are moderately large, and have tiers, not slopes. They are all completely new, and most but not all are in the same locations. There are about four themes that encompass almost all 18 of the greens: 1) mostly flat with one tier in a back corner or 2) low in the center, higher tiers left and right (a lot of these!) or 3) spine running back-to-front, dividing the green left and right or 4) Front and back tiers with back-to-front spines within the tiers. There are few big slopes in the greens. There used to be so many!

Most of the added length - 500-600 yards - is from new tees. Here is a breakdown:

Holes the same length as before: 1, 6, 7, 8
Holes longer from new tees only: 2, 5, 9, 10, 11, 16, 18
Holes longer from new greens only: 3
Holes longer from new tees and greens: 4, 14, 15
Holes longer from the existing back tee being expanded just a few yards: 12, 13, 17

Gib - I am glad someone else feels that way about the North Course! I think it's a more interesting and varied course on better land. I wish it could get a makeover of the scale the South just got - it could be incredible. How about this:

-Move the first green waaay back to the edge of the cliff - about 570-580 and what a view!
-Make 9 and 18 (or 14 and 18) par-4's.
-Make 17 a more dangerous par-3 with the water in play.
-If possible, move the greens on 1, 3, 5, 7 and 12 closer to the canyon edges.
-Keep the same basic green contours and recover lost edges.
-Move every tee as far back as possible - it would be about 7,000 yards.
-Generally give it the time and attention the South just got - make the bunkering attractive, improve the conditions, etc.

Does anyone know if Rees Jones is going to redesign the North as well???

[JohnV]

I went to UC San Diego in the early 1970's.  In my 3 years there the only place I played golf was at Torrey Pines.  I remember some of the greens at the South course being very sloped and it sounds like Rees has flattened a lot of them which is a shame.

Back in those days, the Andy Williams San Diego Open was played on a combined course.  They played 1-3 on the North and then 1-10 and 14-18 on the South.  It was said that this was because 11-13 were "too far away" for spectators, but those who played there regularly knew it was because 11 and 12 were too tough and scores went up when they used them.   Back then there wasn't even a lake in front of 18.