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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2012, 02:44:12 PM »
Adrian, I DO prefer the 17th to the 18th.

Yikes, seems like the 17th is the most hit and hope hole on the course as it currently exists, little strategy involved.

All of those guys got the same result because they each executed at different levels. Different strategies well executed can lead to the same result, that's the nature of a game with discrete results. If Phil had pushed either 4 iron, his score would have been ugly. If Tiger had buried his eagle putt, he would have stood alone among the last few groups.

I can see calling the 18th overrated, only because it seems many consider it the best par 5 in golf. It doesn't strike me as close to that. But it does strike me as a mighty fine hole.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2012, 02:55:30 PM »
Adrian, I DO prefer the 17th to the 18th.

Yikes, seems like the 17th is the most hit and hope hole on the course as it currently exists, little strategy involved.

All of those guys got the same result because they each executed at different levels. Different strategies well executed can lead to the same result, that's the nature of a game with discrete results. If Phil had pushed either 4 iron, his score would have been ugly. If Tiger had buried his eagle putt, he would have stood alone among the last few groups.

I can see calling the 18th overrated, only because it seems many consider it the best par 5 in golf. It doesn't strike me as close to that. But it does strike me as a mighty fine hole.

+1 on all comments
a perhaps overrated (or overexposed) great hole

17's a good par 3 for the February event, a silly driveable par 4 with zero strategy for the US Open "setup"
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2012, 03:05:43 PM »
To me it looks like all kinds of strategy possible..

Phil was playing for no worse than 5, happy to get a 4 but not expecting it. I think when he hit his tee shot on 18 he still had a 3 shot lead over Wi who hadn't yet made his unlikely birdie on 17 to close it to 2. Not sure if Phil plays it that conservatively with just a 2 shot lead, but maybe the new Phil does. If he made a more likely par and Wi somehow mangaed eagle he would be kicking himself though.

I thought Wi's play was odd...He knew Phil had layed up and was likely to make par but no worse. He needed eagle to tie. Surprised he played for 2nd instead of hitting driver and giving himself a chance...Even a wet ball off the tee still gives him a decent shot at 2nd.

I've never played PB but from the white tees isn't the yardage just over 500yds? That would seem to bring a lot more mere mortals into reachable territory options with a "lucky" drive...no?

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2012, 03:10:03 PM »
I thought Wi's play was odd...He knew Phil had layed up and was likely to make par but no worse. He needed eagle to tie. Surprised he played for 2nd instead of hitting driver and giving himself a chance...Even a wet ball off the tee still gives him a decent shot at 2nd.

I think Wi knew he wasn't getting home in 2 no matter what, so he took a big number out of the equation.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2012, 03:11:59 PM »


I've never played PB but from the white tees isn't the yardage just over 500yds? That would seem to bring a lot more mere mortals into reachable territory options with a "lucky" drive...no?

Chris,

I'd suspect that's only the case a couple months a year when the course firms up.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2012, 03:16:56 PM »
Phil was playing for no worse than 5, happy to get a 4 but not expecting it. I think when he hit his tee shot on 18 he still had a 3 shot lead over Wi who hadn't yet made his unlikely birdie on 17 to close it to 2. Not sure if Phil plays it that conservatively with just a 2 shot lead, but maybe the new Phil does. If he made a more likely par and Wi somehow mangaed eagle he would be kicking himself though.

Phil and his caddie stood on the 18th tee and the microphones of CBS' broadcast clearly showed that they knew that Wi only had a short putt for biride on 17, so Mickelson played the last hole under the assumption that he had a two shot lead.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2012, 03:20:53 PM »
To me it looks like all kinds of strategy possible..

Phil was playing for no worse than 5, happy to get a 4 but not expecting it. I think when he hit his tee shot on 18 he still had a 3 shot lead over Wi who hadn't yet made his unlikely birdie on 17 to close it to 2. Not sure if Phil plays it that conservatively with just a 2 shot lead, but maybe the new Phil does. If he made a more likely par and Wi somehow mangaed eagle he would be kicking himself though.

I thought Wi's play was odd...He knew Phil had layed up and was likely to make par but no worse. He needed eagle to tie. Surprised he played for 2nd instead of hitting driver and giving himself a chance...Even a wet ball off the tee still gives him a decent shot at 2nd.

I've never played PB but from the white tees isn't the yardage just over 500yds? That would seem to bring a lot more mere mortals into reachable territory options with a "lucky" drive...no?

As David said, Bones told him Wi was tight and that he would have two shot lead.
Normally I'm a critic of the Bones/Michelson act but I must say Bones handled the situation perfectly (and concisely),
40 wins, most during the Tiger era, is awfully impressive
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2012, 03:24:43 PM »
40 wins, most during the Tiger era, is awfully impressive

I think there's someone else with over 70 during that era... :)

Hats off to Phil, well played.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2012, 03:28:02 PM »
40 wins, most during the Tiger era, is awfully impressive

I think there's someone else with over 70 during that era... :)

Hats off to Phil, well played.

doesn't leave many for the other guys....
It's funny we always talked about how the guys folded because of Tiger's presence, but after watching the last 3 weeks, it just turns out they fold period. ;D ;D
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2012, 03:58:34 PM »
40 wins, most during the Tiger era, is awfully impressive

I think there's someone else with over 70 during that era... :)

Hats off to Phil, well played.

doesn't leave many for the other guys....
It's funny we always talked about how the guys folded because of Tiger's presence, but after watching the last 3 weeks, it just turns out they fold period. ;D ;D

Either that or Jack wasn't near as good as we thought and he constantly let others get a piece of the pie!! 

Just sayin'  ;)

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2012, 04:37:00 PM »
Phil was playing for no worse than 5, happy to get a 4 but not expecting it. I think when he hit his tee shot on 18 he still had a 3 shot lead over Wi who hadn't yet made his unlikely birdie on 17 to close it to 2. Not sure if Phil plays it that conservatively with just a 2 shot lead, but maybe the new Phil does. If he made a more likely par and Wi somehow mangaed eagle he would be kicking himself though.

Phil and his caddie stood on the 18th tee and the microphones of CBS' broadcast clearly showed that they knew that Wi only had a short putt for biride on 17, so Mickelson played the last hole under the assumption that he had a two shot lead.

I thought it was so cool that we actually got to hear the conversation between Bones and Phil. Bones was SUPERB! He told Phil that Wi was making 2 on 17, so they were working with 2 shot lead. He correctly told Phil to hit 4 iron, and when Phil wavered: is it enough club in cold air to make the carry, Bones firmly reassured him it was plenty. Then at the last minute hi said hit it firm, make sure Phil put a good hard swing on it. That was PERECT caddying, and we rarely get to hear all of that.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The 18th at Pebble Beach is the Most Over-Rated Hole in Golf
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2012, 09:13:19 PM »
Mike Hendren,

From years of watching it on TV I too thought it was a relatively easy hole, until I actually teed it up.

The hole plays alot different on the ground than it looks from the blimp.

It's a terrific finishing hole, although, I'm not a fan of the OB flanking the right side.

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