The Woes or Triumphs of Pelican Hill

[Scott_Burroughs]

ELP as Pelican Hill's marketing team:

Welcome back my friends
To the view that never ends.
We're so glad you could attend
Come inside, come inside.

and

Ooooooh, what a lucky man he was!  (Until his credit card bill came and figures out we fleeced him)

[THuckaby2]

Tommy - VERY cool.  I grew up on ELP also - damn, we gotta talk some time.  But we've taken this too far afield and Ran's likely ready to kill me as it is.  Chalk this up as reason #515 why it's sick you and I have yet to meet in person.... I've seen ELP live too many times to count, or so it seems.  Many HAZY memories from that time....

But to whet your appetite... best instrumental in the history of modern music:  Rodeo as performed live by Keith Emerson/ELP.

Unfortunately though, my ELP devotion was not the same as yours - I never did seek them out to meet them - you know well that in SoCal, such things are possible if you try hard enough.  See, my brother discovered this art-rock band known as Genesis that had just put out their first album... a guy named Peter Gabriel was blowing our minds... The story of our running into Peter Gabriel shortly thereafter is pretty great... I have a similar story meeting Phil Collins several years later...well, ok, enough.

At any rate, you think you get riled up about Tom Fazio?  Just get me started on what Genesis turned into and the Phil Collins phenomenon....

Scott - well done re KarnEvil/Pelican - that's exactly what I was thinking!

Finally, for Tommy, back when you played Pine Valley, I imagine these words as sung by Greg Lake were never more appropriate:

You see it's all clear
You were meant to be here......
from the beginning...

TH

ps - I look forward to driving the Armenian crazy discussing this further some day.

[Tim Jackson]

Mr. Janosik

I do not work for The Irvine Co. or FORMA.  Again, I respect the criticisms I just think there is something deeper there than is being represented.  I have studied both courses numerous times and have not found strategy, shaping and contouring, settings or anything to be as god awful as what is being written.  Also, and I do not mean to sound like a broken record, but I really do not think that most people understand exactly how many restrictions are applicable in Southern California.  There are ALOT.

[Tim_Weiman]

Jim Janosik:

During my years of living in Southern California (and playing at Pelican Hill maybe a dozen times) I never heard anyone refer to the place as "world class".

Maybe their advertising has changed, I don't know, but if it has Pelican Hill certainly wouldn't be the only golf complex in the world with exaggerated marketing claims.

Pelican Hill is what it is: perfect for business entertaining, not a place you would go to "study" golf architecture and, like Tim Jackson suggests, probably a case study of the complexity of permitting in California.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom, Somewhere around here, I have a picture of me and my guitar hero--Steve Hackett. (Genesis) Haven't met Peter Gabriel yet, but do hope that someday I get the chance.

[THuckaby2]

FANTASTIC, Tommy!  I had to figure Genesis would be right there for ya also.  I am very impressed... and not at all surprised.

Nice pic, also!

TH

[Dennis Harwood]

What I don't see in this discussion is a major element of Tom's assignment--

He was directed to build a "resort type" course-- One that had an appearance of a lot more bite than the bunkers, rough, water, etc accually posed--  He was instructed that resort play was the objective and the common golfer was likely to be 20+ handicaps-- Therefore the visual appearance that you were facing a beast, but were able to conquer it with " your febble game" was an objective-- He was not directed to build a championship course to withstand assult from touring pros, or even scratch golfers--

He succeeding, I believe-- The bowled fairways, the bunkers that look menacing, but are not close to the greens, the slopping of green complexs toward the putting surface--

It creates exactly what was ordered--The problem is that after a couple of rounds(or advice from a good caddie)  you know to take a line of play which avoids the trouble and you quickly realize that what you are playing is a little bit of a "put-on"--

Like going to dance hall or "gentlemen's club" and believing that the attention is because you are handsome, not because of the thickness of your wallet--You soon realize at Pelican its not your game that is creating low scores, and you feel a bit deceived--