News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Jay Flemma

  • Total Karma: 0
The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay
« on: January 20, 2012, 10:50:52 AM »
http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=4161

From the article:

JF: Why haven’t we seen a design like this from you before?

RTJ: It’s hard for owners to overcome their predispositions. Some people like what they’ve seen before and, as you said, they are afraid of change because that vision gets in their heads. Some designers take risks and they might not get the best reception, but you have to take risks. You can be different and still be dull, but you can also be different and unforgettable. If you’re going to be a leader, you have to take positions that are bold. Some people might like some of the holes or say they are unfair, but they have undeniable character.....

RTJ: Seven is a Cape hole off the tee. You have to have choose your line carefully in order to place the tee shot just over the Cape bunker, but not too far left. You want to be like Geoff Oglivy, a thoughtful player with control off the tee. He would love this hole and this course. Than you play over hummocks, which I call the Alps.

JF: I do too, and it place to a green that has a bowl-ish features.

RTJ: Exactly. I also call the two mounds the “Olympic Mountains.” The green is elevated green 50 feet above you, and if you play too far left off the tee, you get semi-blind shot. Play just over the bunker and you get a better view and angle to the elevated green.

Note:  This is not a hardcore, GCA-cetric article, but meant to be more of a fun, easy diary entry.  I had to save a lot of discussion of the course architecture for another project.  Just have fun with this one.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 11:51:40 AM by Jay Flemma »
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

PCCraig

  • Total Karma: -12
Re: The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay New
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 11:18:44 AM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 06:00:20 PM by PCraig »
H.P.S.

Jay Flemma

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 11:26:57 AM »
Pat Craig, everyone has told you to back off.  We're tired of your negativity.  Remember Ran's post?

1) Before typing, decide if you are adding to the study of golf course architecture. If not, pause until you are, as this is a golf architecture web site. Sexy here are things like Little Aston, De Pan and Yeamans Hall.

2) While typing, take the time to explain fully the point or points that you intend to make. It is hard to imagine how blurting out incomplete sentences adds much value, either to your life or to those who have to wade past the morass to find the good stuff.

3) Before hitting the Post button consider the tone of your post. Does it encourage others to participate or is its purpose to prove that you are the World’s Smartest Man (the title of World’s Most Interesting Man is already taken)? If you are discussing a subject matter you are likely fine. If you are addressing the perceived ignorance of another human being then you are likely less fine.

4) Before typing your twelfth post of the thread and RESORTING TO ALL CAPS TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS AND THAT YOU MEAN BUSINESS, think of your loved ones and consider why you are embarrassing them by starting to rant like a lunatic in a widely read forum.

Everyone can be a critic – that is easy. Being accurate and offering insight are the real challenges.  Yet you come every thread of mine just to be obnoxious.

You have been told time and again that Ran himself said to me that he not only has no problem with my doing it this, way, but that's the way he wants it.  I have been following his specific instructions, and many other posters have told you to cool it, yet like the little puppy that never got housebroken, you continue to piddle childishly...all because I said something you didn't like about Hazeltine.  You exposed yourself as having a despicable agenda, and are a textbook example of the trouble-maker on GCA.com...a spoiled kid who uses it as Golf Club Access.

One of these days, kid, you'll have to grow up.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 12:08:21 PM by Jay Flemma »
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Dan Kelly

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 11:53:59 AM »
(1) I certainly hope I'm not the only one who finds the last three paragraphs of Reply No. 2 in this thread repugnant and unacceptable -- repugnant and unacceptable even under the Rules cited earlier in that very post:

   "Everyone can be a critic – that is easy. Being accurate and offering insight are the real challenges.  Y4et you come every thread of mine just to be obnoxious.

   "You have been told time and again that Ran himself said to me that he not only has no problem with my doing it this, way, but that's the way he wants it.  Yet like the little puppy that never got housebroken, you continue to piddle childishly...all because I said something you didn't like about Hazeltine.  You exposed yourself as having a despicable agenda, and are exactly what's wrong with GCA.com...a snot-nosed kid who uses it as Golf Club Access.

   "One of these days, kid, you'll have to grow up.."
 
   Mr. Flemma's accusations are unbecoming to himself, and do not warrant any answer -- but they are going to get one: Pat Craig has been a solid contributor to this forum. Period. (Check the past few pages of threads, for some recent evidence.)
    If he has had any "ulterior motives" ... well, he sure as hell is not the only one, and does not deserve to be called out as "a snot-nosed kid who uses [the site] as Golf Club Access."
    He certainly can't help that he's young (though, of course, the rest of us can't help but hold that against him! [emoticon omitted]).

(2) If Ran has encouraged Mr. Flemma to redirect readers to another Website ... well, OK. It's Ran's site. He can make the rules.

Dan out

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jay Flemma

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 11:59:53 AM »
Dan, you are dead wrong.  I have counted no less than 30 threads where he simply comes on my thread to attack me, never once discussing architecture, but engaging in ad hominem attacks, and frankly not only am I sick of it, but plenty of the other posters are as well.  He went so far as to praise the very rules Ran cited on the GCA in 2012 thread, then goes back to his disingenuous attacks, which also makes him a hypocrite.  He even attacks my journalistic integrity, which is good enough for the PGA of America, Golf Channel, Cybergolf (a partner of CBS Sports) and the governing bodies of the USGA and PGA.

I don't care what you find reprehensible, and I challenge you to point to a single thread of mine where he has contributed to the discussion of architecture.  Let's see if you can do it. I have never once gone on any threads he's started and acted in any manner similarly.  This has been, up until now, a one-sided fight specifically sought out by him each and every time.

If he treated you the way he treats me - like a cowardly cyberbully - you'd be angry too.  Has it escaped you that he doesn't do the same thing to other posters who link to their websites?  Like Brad Klein? Or Jim Colton?  Or Mac Plumart?  Or JC Jones? Or any of the other posters who link out?  The only person he does it to is me...so until he starts treating everyone else with the same tired refrain, your defense of him is invalid.

Now let's get back to talking about architecture.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 12:25:19 PM by Jay Flemma »
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

PCCraig

  • Total Karma: -12
Re: The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay New
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 12:28:45 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 06:06:57 PM by PCraig »
H.P.S.

Garland Bayley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 12:28:47 PM »
An advertisement to jayflemma.thegolfspace.com! Haven't seen one of these for a while...  ::)

Dan,

As long as Pat is telling the truth about not seeing "one of these for a while", it seems his post is truthful, accurate, and non-controversial.

However,

"You exposed yourself as having a despicable agenda, and are a textbook example of the trouble-maker on GCA.com...a spoiled kid who uses it as Golf Club Access.

One of these days, kid, you'll have to grow up."

Seems to violate Ran's rules, and make one wonder who is the real "kid".

So +1 to your post.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

PCCraig

  • Total Karma: -12
Re: The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay New
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 12:48:06 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 06:09:49 PM by PCraig »
H.P.S.

Garland Bayley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 12:57:52 PM »
Pat,

My post said your post was "truthful, accurate, and non-controversial". Did you misunderstand that? Perhaps our language expert, Dan, can contradict me, but the word "his" binds to the most recent referent, which would be "Pat", not Jay.

Or, am I not understanding the motivation of your post?

An advertisement to jayflemma.thegolfspace.com! Haven't seen one of these for a while...  ::)

Dan,

As long as Pat is telling the truth about not seeing "one of these for a while", it seems his post is truthful, accurate, and non-controversial.

Garland,

Really? You've missed these?

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50861.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50830.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50799.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50052.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50071.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49642.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49533.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48827.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47240.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44130.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47109.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45768.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44292.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41435.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46533.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48158.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47682.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49693.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30720.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31310.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35057.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,29821.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,28462.0.html

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

PCCraig

  • Total Karma: -12
Re: The Walla to Walla Tour (Pt. 1) Chambers Bay New
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 01:38:01 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 06:09:56 PM by PCraig »
H.P.S.