He's Got No Chance Jim.

[Mike Hendren]

When have you stood over the ball and subconsciously channeled Bob Rosburg?  Why?

Thanks to Ben Jarvis' photograph of the 2nd shot at Pebble Beach Golf Link's 9th hole it gets my vote.  After a solid drive down the middle of the fairway I stood 190 yards out and knew immediately that I couldn't hit that tiny green in 25 tries, maybe more.  My best bet was the bunker short left - but that's too small a target.  No way my low ball flight would hold the green and the likelihood of my long iron leaking right left no other option.  I laid up with a 7 iron and pitched on to make 5.  Oddly, by comparison I'm 2 for 2 at Cypress Point Club's 16th.

Ben's Photo:  
 
I think "uncle" architecture is good in small doses.  It keeps us humble. The most daunting shot you've faced?

Bogey

[Ronald Montesano]

Tee shot over the sheds/hotel, Road Hole (#17) St. Andrews Old...you know that the gnarly grass awaits if you wuss out and pull it, so you have to go hard at the proper letter in the sign and trust your swing. A close second was my putt from 30 yards out, through the Valley of Sin, on the Home hole (#18) at the same course, with a host of St.Andreans holding court behind the green, watching to see if the Yank would pitch it high or run it low.

[Sean_A]

Bogey

No chance I am laying up there with 190.  I know the odds would be stacked against me, but I wouldn't carry a pencil around Pebble.

Ciao

[George Pazin]

Bogey

No chance I am laying up there with 190.  I know the odds would be stacked against me, but I wouldn't carry a pencil around Pebble.

Ciao

I think the key elements of Bogey's assessment were low ball flight and long iron leaking right.

With today's equipment, who hits long irons from 190?

I've played safe like this many times, though usually it's because there is water fronting the green. I usually dump my little wedge into the water anyway, to complete the trick.

[Sean_A]

Bogey

No chance I am laying up there with 190.  I know the odds would be stacked against me, but I wouldn't carry a pencil around Pebble.

Ciao

I think the key elements of Bogey's assessment were low ball flight and long iron leaking right.

With today's equipment, who hits long irons from 190?

I've played safe like this many times, though usually it's because there is water fronting the green. I usually dump my little wedge into the water anyway, to complete the trick.

George

It could be that I don't take golf seriously.  If I think I have a chance to pull off a shot I am gonna have a go - its as simple as that.  To me, thats where the fun of the game lies - taking on the doable challenges, but I don't begrudge anybody playing a sensible game. 

Ciao

[Mike Hendren]

Sean and Ronald, I think good architecture challenges both talent and psyche.  I was a still a decent player with I played Pebble, but I was visually flumoxed by the second shot at 9.  It wasn't a matter of "going for it" during a once-in-a-lifetime experience.  I simply knew the architecture wins.  That's why Rosburg's quote is appropo - NO chance (as compared to a low percentage play).  By comparison, I had no hesitation pulling a 3-wood and driver from the bag on the 16th tee at  Cypress Point and making the carry - I knew I could make the shot even at low odds. 

Ronald, funny about your comments at the Road Hole - in my two rounds there I felt confident on the tee and absolutely cranked drives that wound up in the extreme right edge of the fairway with an 8 and 6 iron in from a perfect angle.  

Just wanted you guys to know I'm not a total chicken-s@%t!

Bogey

[George Pazin]

George

It could be that I don't take golf seriously.  If I think I have a chance to pull off a shot I am gonna have a go - its as simple as that.  To me, thats where the fun of the game lies - taking on the doable challenges, but I don't begrudge anybody playing a sensible game. 

Ciao

Very true, for most I'd guess. It all comes down to how you define "doable". There's doable, I have maybe a 20% chance at this, and doable, I could maybe do it 1 in 50 times.

When I was enjoying the terrific Mountain Ridge last year, I had about 210 fairly uphill into the 9th green (with the venerable Pat Mucci standing nearby). I quickly pulled my 7 iron, pured it and left it maybe 25 yards short. Pat said, you could've gotten there. I knew the truth - my swing with a 7 laying up is not my swing with my hybrid going for it. After embarrassing myself with my tee shot on the hole, I wasn't about to do it again so soon.

[Sean_A]

George

It could be that I don't take golf seriously.  If I think I have a chance to pull off a shot I am gonna have a go - its as simple as that.  To me, thats where the fun of the game lies - taking on the doable challenges, but I don't begrudge anybody playing a sensible game. 

Ciao

Very true, for most I'd guess. It all comes down to how you define "doable". There's doable, I have maybe a 20% chance at this, and doable, I could maybe do it 1 in 50 times.

When I was enjoying the terrific Mountain Ridge last year, I had about 210 fairly uphill into the 9th green (with the venerable Pat Mucci standing nearby). I quickly pulled my 7 iron, pured it and left it maybe 25 yards short. Pat said, you could've gotten there. I knew the truth - my swing with a 7 laying up is not my swing with my hybrid going for it. After embarrassing myself with my tee shot on the hole, I wasn't about to do it again so soon.

George

1 in 50 is harsh odds IF I have to play over water or lost ball territory.  I look at the above photo and see a cut shot.  I probably leave it left or maybe send it in the drink, but even at 50 to 1 I like those odds if a can manage an a lazy chip/2 putt 5 40 times out of 50. 

Bogey - sensible golfer, chicken shit?  Lets not quibble over words.

Ciao   

[Ronald Montesano]

Miguel...I talked the Swedish dude I played with at Old Course out of hitting 1-iron (yes, he could hit it) to safety at #17...he couldn't fully commit to the driver, though, and tugged it left.

If I get to #9 at Pebble with a decent score (at something like $50 a hole, right?), I am damned well playing it with a pencil and laying up, as Miguel did.

It is the rare amateur not named Tufts or Mucci who, with a good score on the line, makes the brave/borderline foolish play a la the one in the photo.

[Bob_Huntley]

That's why Rosburg's quote is appropo - NO chance (as compared to a low percentage play).  By comparison, I had no hesitation pulling a 3-wood and driver from the bag on the 16th tee at  Cypress Point and making the carry - I knew I could make the shot even at low odds. 

Bogey

Michael,

Wasn't I there when you were walking with the the four ball and I persuaded you to have a shot at the green at 16? If I remember you had on your street shoes and delivered a majestic shot to within a few feet of the flagstick.

Bob

[Tom_Doak]

Very true, for most I'd guess. It all comes down to how you define "doable". There's doable, I have maybe a 20% chance at this, and doable, I could maybe do it 1 in 50 times.

The best conversation I had with Jack Nicklaus at Sebonack was on this topic.  When we were building the 13th hole [a par-5] he casually mentioned that he could hit his second shot onto the green from a certain spot perhaps 80% of the time.  I had never really thought of it in those terms, and asked what % he had to be comfortable with a shot to go for it in his tournament career.  He looked at me like I was an idiot, and then said, he had to be 100% sure he could make the shot before taking it on.  He knew he wouldn't SUCCEED 100% of the time, but if he wasn't sure a well struck shot would do it, then he was going to lay up.

[Niall C]

Tom

That's interesting, but surely what would happen to the ball if he didn't make it would come into the equation as well ? For instance, if he's left with a relatively easy pitch from the side of the green or an easy bunker shot then perhaps he might not feel there was any harm going for it. Interesting to know how the great golfing minds work. Nicklaus always struck me as a player who never through a tournament away, he may get beaten but never through it away.

Niall

[JESII]

That is an interesting point Tom...I would think a great deal of the interest a course engenders is based on those kind of decisions for the player...how often can I pull it off? What are the consequences if I don't?

[Mac Plumart]

That is the essence of risk/reward, no?

[Brad Isaacs]

A quote attributed to Johnny Miller said," Jack knew he was the best and and we knew he was the best , so he played to the center of the greens knowing everyone else would screw upin the last four holes".  Is there no temptation for Jack in golf? Is that why I dont tend to enjoy his golf courses as much as I do other designers? Temptation is good for the soul?

[Bruce Katona]

190 is a 3 hybrid.  I would have closed my stance slightly to encourage a draw and mentally pitcured the ball starting out at the right edge of the green and lazily curling left for the ball to run onto (and probably thru) the green.

In reality, what would ave occurred is:

1. a dead pull quacker into the left rough with no hope of a 3rd shot or
2. A slice into the drink - 3 in- playing for and hoping to salvage a 6.

Happy New Year to all.

BK

[Adam Clayman]

I stood 190 yards out and knew immediately that I couldn't hit that tiny green in 25 tries, maybe more.  My best bet was the bunker short left - but that's too small a target.  No way my low ball flight would hold the green and the likelihood of my long iron leaking right left no other option.  I laid up with a 7 iron and pitched on to make 5.

Michael, While I don't agree with your ultimate strategy, I do disagree with your assessments of the likely out comes.

That front  left bunker is much easier to find than it's size would dictate, BECAUSE, the 30 or so yards before that bunker slopes into that bunker. It's a gatherer.  

Now, if you were 190 yards, in the left center of the fairway, there's a good chance you found one of the few flatter spots on that fairway. If you were anywhere right of center, you probably had a downhill lie. This downhill lie, imo, actually helps us higher cappers reach this green, because, it's significantly downhill to the green, and a lowball flight, will not run out like you think it might. Add to that , the green has a significant slope from back to front, and voila, your ball holds. Also, the left green side hill has enough cabbage on it to slow down a ball and have it stay on the green, IF, it bounces properly right, onto the surface.

Do you regret not taking on the heroic carry, now that you're older and perhaps not hitting it as well?

If you do, that was the biggest reason to say "Screw it" and have gone for it.

[Kris Shreiner]

A nice percentage shot into that 9th green at Pebble, for the less strong longer iron/hybrid golfer from 190, would be a 170 shot that lands just over that last fairway ridge and releases either just short or on to the green. I've seen that shot accomplished, by both higher handicapers and low markers, many times there.

The turf often is softer on that approach stretch than it should be, but it being a swale it naturally will hold moisture longer. What's interesting is that while the green entrance to the hole is narrow, that landing area about 20yds short of the green really ads some forgiveness to the missed shot, with generally a decent recovery shot to get up and down if it ends up short. This is especially true into a stiff, South wind, as four is an excellent score in those conditions.

The only real penal miss is the error left into the gunch on the downslope of that ravine. It's a superb, but quite demanding hole, particularly in windy conditions.

Cheers,
Kris