[Jerry Kluger]

While I recognize that course construction is down and I understand that participation in the game is down, I do believe that golf course architecture is doing quite well.  Restoration of great venues is being undertaken with an emphasis on tree removal and playing corridors and  emphasizing the architect's original design for the course.  An example of that is Old Town which shows us the brilliance of Perry Maxwell.  There have been some recent top tier courses that are giving the public the opportunity to see great architecture such as Cabot Links and Streamsong, with Cabot Cliffs coming soon.  So while we may have concern about the closure of some courses, and the overall lack of new construction, in so far as golf course architecture, the world isn't so bad.

[Bill_McBride]

Jerry, did any of that happen in 2014?   I'm hoping 2014 will be the bottom of the slump.  The economy appears to be cranking up, hopefully this will translate into some new courses and more restoration projects. 

[Duncan Cheslett]

The economy appears to be cranking up, hopefully this will translate into some new courses and more restoration projects.  

Why do we need new golf courses?  

Serious question.

[Jerry Kluger]

Bill: I don't know that new courses are very much in the cards but the restorations hopefully are on track for the future.  And perhaps it is not only restorations but renovations where courses recognize that all the trees and all the water don't necessarily make for a better golf course or golf experience.  It seems that the architects have been able to explain to the courses/members, how much more enjoyable golf can be with a firm and fast conditions and that tree removal will also mean a healthier course.

[jeffwarne]

The economy appears to be cranking up, hopefully this will translate into some new courses and more restoration projects.  

Why do we need new golf courses?  

Serious question.

I think there's a lot of truth to that.
Every time a destination course is built, someone makes a decision whether they can justify their home club that their wife/family won't justify vs. taking several destination trips yearly.
Not a bad thing, just an observation.
As access improves, al the UK model, many make a similar decision.
Sean Arble would be the poster child of this as I know he spends less and less time at his home club (if he even has one anymore)

[Brent Hutto]

I'm tempted to answer the question of why we need new courses by simply saying "we" don't need them at all. But that would be using "we" to mean only "me" I suppose.

At the moment my goal is to downsize the enormous portion of my disposable income that goes to golf, golf travel and golf equipment. So not only is it likely I'll experience few or none of any destination courses being built, it would certainly be in my interest if the courses I like locally could somehow find their way to more stable financial footing.

If there were a boom in construction/renovation/whatever at the local level I do not think that would be at all to the struggling local course's financial benefit. But really, I don't any such boom happening in the next decade or two in my local area.

My cynical take is that any uptick in the golf architecture business will be toward creating courses that do not serve my needs. There are already more $700-a-day golf destinations than I'll ever visit. And renovation or additional courses at well-moneyed private clubs in other parts of the country have no effect on me one way or another. Finally, any new work being done in my locale will almost certainly be to create more courses requiring the use of golf carts (of which there are already too many).

Wow, that was one cynical and selfish posting for Christmas Eve. I gotta go find some Holiday Spirit(s)!

[Jerry Kluger]

Brent: Let's try to make your Christmas Eve a bit brighter.  As those thousands, if not millions, of pine trees planted on golf courses in the 1950s, 1960s, etc., begin to reach the end of their lives, hopefully, we will see both public and private courses recognize that replacing them with new trees is ill-advised for both course conditioning and playability.

[Paul Gray]

2014 will be nothing more tgan a footnote in golf history at the beginning of the great renovation period. Up the revolution!

There, that was a more positive festive message. 

Merry Christmas all.

[Tom_Doak]

The economy appears to be cranking up, hopefully this will translate into some new courses and more restoration projects.  

Why do we need new golf courses?  

Serious question.

Duncan:

If you look at the golf industry as a worldwide whole, we don't need new courses.  But that's exactly the same sort of thinking that got us into this mess, when somebody at the National Golf Foundation looked at the numbers years ago and decided we needed to open a new course EVERY DAY.

In fact, the demand for golf courses is a very regional thing, and the numbers need to match the local market.  There are still many places where a golf course would quickly fill up a membership roster, if you could get over the development restrictions and cost of real estate to build one affordably.  Other places are well over the number they need.

Fortunately, though, the matter of developing golf courses is down to the decisions of individual developers.  Some guys just want to create something cool.  Who are you to tell them no?

[Carl Rogers]

Let's talk about what kind of golf courses such as:

-short beginner neighborhood courses primarily for youngsters..........
a good year for them??? never hear about it.  the last new one I was aware of a couple of years back was a course/facility in Detriot that TD and Brian Slawnik did.  Given Detriot's problems, I wondered if it is NLE??
In my limited experience, I am aware of 3:
-Portsmouth, VA city park, 9 holes
-Overton Park, Memphis TN, 9 holes (my old haunt back in pre-historic times)
-Audubon Park, New Orleans, LA 18 holes, par 64 (across the street from my alma mater, Tulane)

- urban golf facilities of whatever kind??

[JMEvensky]

-Overton Park, Memphis TN, 9 holes (my old haunt back in pre-historic times)

 When? Former Overton Park Open champ here (1968).

[Tom_Doak]

Let's talk about what kind of golf courses such as:

-short beginner neighborhood courses primarily for youngsters..........
a good year for them??? never hear about it.  the last new one I was aware of a couple of years back was a course/facility in Detriot that TD and Brian Slawnik did.  Given Detriot's problems, I wondered if it is NLE??

Carl:

The facility at Marygrove College for Midnight Golf is alive and well.  The Midnight Golf program has lots of charitable support and the practice course we built for them is relatively inexpensive to maintain, because they're only mowing a practice green at green height.

The 9-hole kids course we built at Common Ground is also thriving.  It was wall-to-wall kids when I stopped in this fall.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Short older affordable urban  courses still exist:

 FDR, a Philly Muni @6004y.
http://fdr.golfphilly.org/

John Byrne, a Philly muni designed by Alex Findlay @5193y.
http://johnbyrne.golfphilly.org/

Walnut Lane, a former Philly muni designed by Alex Findlay @ 4509y.
http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/course.aspx?course=989845

[Jerry Kluger]

Tom: It does seem that there is a movement of golf course owners who are interested in buying existing courses that are in financial trouble and then spending money to make them better.  And by making them better they are not thinking that making them tougher is the answer.

[Don Mahaffey]

Let's talk about what kind of golf courses such as:

-Overton Park, Memphis TN, 9 holes (my old haunt back in pre-historic times)

- urban golf facilities of whatever kind??

Carl, a few years back Kelly Blake Moran and I were working with a business man who was trying to negotiate a lease for all the city courses in Memphis.

Overton and Riverside were the first ones to be fixed up/repaired. Overton is in a cool area with the art institute right there and the thought was the clubhouse could be converted to a bistro type restaurant. Kelly had a nice plan for the course and we were looking forward to making it happen...then it just died. It would have been fun to clean that little course up. Maybe the $$$ just never made sense which is too bad as it was a perfect little 9 holer in an urban setting. Rumor had it that 7 Masters Champions had played at Overton at one time or another, mostly in their youth was what was told to us. I don't know that I ever heard the names of all, but an interesting stat for a completely under the radar 9 hole golf course.

[Jim Nugent]

Why do we need new golf courses?  

You could ask the same question about new cars, new houses, new office buildings for the NY Times.     

"Want" is probably a better word than "need."  I think the "we" in your question is whoever can put the resources together to design and build a new course.  If by we you mean society, I don't believe anyone is smart enough to answer that for other people. 

[Duncan Cheslett]

The economy appears to be cranking up, hopefully this will translate into some new courses and more restoration projects.  

Why do we need new golf courses?  

Serious question.

Duncan:

If you look at the golf industry as a worldwide whole, we don't need new courses.  But that's exactly the same sort of thinking that got us into this mess, when somebody at the National Golf Foundation looked at the numbers years ago and decided we needed to open a new course EVERY DAY.

In fact, the demand for golf courses is a very regional thing, and the numbers need to match the local market.  There are still many places where a golf course would quickly fill up a membership roster, if you could get over the development restrictions and cost of real estate to build one affordably.  Other places are well over the number they need.

Fortunately, though, the matter of developing golf courses is down to the decisions of individual developers.  Some guys just want to create something cool.  Who are you to tell them no?

On the whole I'd agree, Tom.

The 'need' or otherwise for any particular proposed new golf course should be established by analysis of supply and demand, and then balanced against the environmental concerns of society at large.

The other side of this market-led approach of course, is that many existing courses will find themselves on the wrong side of the supply: demand ratio, be unviable, and will close. If we are to welcome viable new developments we must also welcome (or at least shed no tears over) the closure of courses for which no on-going business case can be made.

Bill's post to which I responded however, suggested that a return to the building of new courses would be a good thing per se. Overall, I can see no demand for golf courses which isn't catered for by existing supply.

Of course, particular types of destination development along the lines of Bandon, Streamsong, and Cabot appear currently to be very popular and successful. Demand for such facilities would appear to exceed demand in the US and so I would envisage more to be built. How long though, before a bubble develops and every multi-millionaire golf-nut in America is planning his own ego-led 3-course resort on less than exciting terrain?  We all know what happens to bubbles.

Naturally I speak very much from a UK&I perspective. These islands are over-run with golf courses, from the mediocre to the best in the world. Every proposed new golf course is met with strident opposition on environmental grounds which is frankly difficult to argue against rationally. Even more difficult to make to the public at large is the case that there is any need for more golf courses. There quite clearly isn't.

The quality of golf provision in the UK would improve IMO if maybe 10% of golf courses closed. The total golf spend would then be spread less thinly allowing for much-needed investment on some of our impoverished Golden Age courses.

[Thomas Dai]

Instead of new courses, what about NLE courses or semi-NLE courses arising from the dead, or rather, arising like an Askernish?

Any out there or likely?

Atb

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