[JNC Lyon]

Yesterday, I was watching an interview with investing great Charles Ellis.  He is a big proponent of passive investing (or "indexing"), and one of the metaphors he uses to describe investing is "a loser's game."  That is, investing is a business where the person who makes the fewest mistakes, rather than the one who makes big bets that occasionally pay off, will be most successful.  Ellis describes this idea in his book, Investment Policy, and he also uses golf as an example of a "loser's game."

My questions to the group:

1. Is golf truly a loser's game?
2. Does great golf architecture reward those who win at the loser's game (i.e. the plodder who makes few mistakes)? Or, is this type of architecture boring? Does great golf architecture reward gambling and aggressive play more than conservative play?

[David_Tepper]

John -

Haven't you pretty much described the difference between the Masters and the US Open, at least in terms of how the courses used to be set up? Winning the Masters has pretty much been about playing aggressively and going for birdies and eagles. Winning the US Open has been all about making pars.

DT

[Wade Whitehead]

I don't know if it's a loser's game but golf is often a battle of attrition.

WW

[Melvyn Morrow]

Golf is a game which does not require a winner or winning. That is perhaps the real magic or should I call it the hidden gem that defines golf as a great game.

Yes many want to win, many put winning way ahead of the enjoyment of the game, alas they are the real losers as in truth the game just need the player and a course (totally fit for purpose).

Melvyn

[Mac Plumart]

First off, John...I really like that book you are reading/have read.

Secondly, I love Melvyn's post.

Thirdly, this to me highlights the fun of match play.  You could start out playing a loser's game of golf trying to avoid, well, losing.  but if the heat is turned up and you fall behind you will have to try for winning shot and turn the tables via playing the winning game of golf.

[Steve Lang]

 ... ah the fine differences in a game and competitive sport..

years ago i used to play with "Player B", he plodded down the center, scored well by never getting into trouble, boring guy by all standards.  Much preferred getting out for rounds with "Player A" who would go for it from anywhere and with whom match play always seemed to come down to the last hole or two..

... winning did matter, but it was how you played the game that counted

[Mike Nuzzo]

The difference between ‘judging mind’ and ‘discerning mind’ is the difference between being a prisoner and being free.
Set yourself free Melvyn

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mike

I'm free because I am not or ever have been a slave in needing to win. I have been free to enjoy the game of golf from the start because of the in-depth teaching of my father and great uncles. A win, if it comes is just the bonus, the cream on top of the Ice Cream. Understanding one owns level is paramount, it allows one to be free to enjoy the experience. Noting of course that not everyone can or needs to be a winner. 

I view that those unable to openly debate or to examine an alternative point of view on this site relating to GCA is by far the poorer for he/she is not free to openly speak their mind. Perhaps it’s the fear of losing business or for stating an unpopular belief that many refrain from participating in what could have been some real serious GCA subject. So yes I'm free but are you and the other designers on GCA.com

Many will not even look at the possibilities that the drainage work is too destructive, and perhaps unnecessary both in depth and quantity. That building courses in areas that will not naturally sustain a course is more a question of money rather than the good for the game. Finally the need to address technology and clearly voice an opinion in the ever increasing length of modern courses, just to feather the nests of a handful of long hitters compared to the majority who do not seem to be able to hit a ball more than a couple of hundred yards, if that.

No Mike, I am indeed free, how many others can really say that on GCA.com and mean it.

Melvyn
 

[Scott Stearns]

All i need is a course, a cart and a Bushnell....

[Jason Connor]

Love
Fazio
Norman

And I haven't played the Dye, though I hear it's great.

Capped one evening with a nice steak at the Norman restaurant though.

[Ronald Montesano]

Jason O...Wrong Thread!!!


Match play is for plodders...all golf competition, ultimately, is for plodders. We coaches tell our players that you don't follow a bad shot with a great one; a good one will do you just fine. You will always wear your opponent down, either in medal or match, with relentless consistency.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Melvyn
To clarify...
I was referring to you calling someone a looser because they have a different preference.
Cheers

[John Kavanaugh]

Could someone explain to me the acceptable ratio of wins to failures it takes to keep a guy trying to win?  Isn't winning one event per year worth entering ten?  Honestly, I love winning so much my ratio is closer to one in thirty. You don't have to give up on winning, just adjust your ratio or better yet, redefine victory.

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