[Sean_A]

"Walkable" is a bit of a red herring.  To me, the game is enhanced when the walk is a pleasure.  To be a pleasure one can't expect more than perhaps a few walks which strike one as possibly disrupting the flow of the game.  For me, the walk at The Road definitely qualifies as disruptive and therefore a negative aspect of the design.  Indeed, Bulls Bay too is an awkward walk which perplexes me.  I hear horror stories about Royal Kent.  It all makes me wonder how good Strantz was at routing a course or was he just unlucky in getting very awkward sites?

Ciao 

[Scott_Burroughs]

Sean,

You don't like Tobacco Road because of being caught as a redneck in an ass pic  :



The only thing disruptive about TR's walk to me is if you're using a pull/pushcart, then it's becomes disruptive.

I believe Strantz' general directive for Stonehouse and Royal New Kent were to find the best holes he could find, and then connect them w/cart paths.  I felt that Stonehouse was a tougher walk then RNK, because it's hillier.  Both have long treks between holes.

[Peter Ferlicca]

Jonathan,

Yes, I do have a walkers course at Stone Eagle, it is a pretty easy walk when you do the walking course, it eliminates all the walks to the far back tees and converts a couple of par 5s into par 4s, and then a couple par 4s into par 3s.  And of course number 7 is played from 6 green making it a great driveable par 4. 

A lot more people would walk out there if it weren't for a couple times where you have to go deep down in ravines, and then climb back out.  The ravine you have to cross on #14 is pretty deep.

[Tom_Doak]

Do I assume that no Mike Strantz can be considered great?
Tobacco Road
Royal New Kent

Carl:

I don't agree that no Mike Strantz course can be considered great, but I certainly do think that the lack of walkability of many of his courses holds them back in the rankings, because at least some of the panelists consider walkability to be very important.  This point is often overlooked by many of his fans who wonder why more of his courses aren't ranked way up on top.

I guess GOLF DIGEST must have given those Best New awards to Stonehouse and Royal New Kent before they started making walkability a part of their rankings, huh?

[Sean_A]

Sean,

You don't like Tobacco Road because of being caught as a redneck in an ass pic  :



The only thing disruptive about TR's walk to me is if you're using a pull/pushcart, then it's becomes disruptive.

I believe Strantz' general directive for Stonehouse and Royal New Kent were to find the best holes he could find, and then connect them w/cart paths.  I felt that Stonehouse was a tougher walk then RNK, because it's hillier.  Both have long treks between holes.

Scott

You cheeky bum looker! 

I know I have done this before, but here we go.

1. Not near the house!

3. Walk back to the tee from #2 green is awkward because one is potentially walking back into a danger zone from the 2nd tee.

4. Walk the length of the 3rd back to the tee - a terrible mistake!

6. A long walk across a road.

10.  A long walk from the 9th green.

13. A long walk from the 12th green.

14. A long walk to from the 13th green.

15. A long walk from the 14th green.

18.  Another walk back the length of the previous hole - terrible.

I would personally consider The Road a great course if not for the many long/awkward walks.  I can forgive the odd risk taking in the design which didn't quite pan out, but the lack of concern for the walker is something too big to overlook.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

I used Google Earth to measure the total distance.

Assuming one hits it straight and doesn't deviate too far off the fairways its about 4.75 miles.  Throw in the walk to and from the clubhouse at the start and beginning and we'll call it an even 5 miles.

5 miles doesn't seem too far out of the norm, i'm guessing probably within 1 standard deviation of the norm for all courses in the US.  But if its pretty hilly that 5 mile walk can be pretty tough.

P.S.  As a reference point, Indian Canyon is one of the shortest courses I can think of in terms of distance from the tips (6200 yards) and walks between holes...and it still comes in at 4.25 miles from 1 tee to 18 green.

[Mike Benham]

Quick now, how many great courses have wall to wall cart paths?

Hint:  it's not very many.

Can you give us an example of wall-to-wall?

[Matt Day]

this was good fun, the East Course at Kai Sai Chau in Kong Kong.

[Jay Flemma]

Lakota Canyon and Sanctuary in CO.

They are not riding only.  You can walk them, though Lakota is a murderous thing...

[Andy Troeger]

There are many courses that aren't great walks, but I didn't get the impression that was the point of this thread. Tobacco Road is hardly unwalkable, just a bit awkwardly routed in spots. I didn't include Gozzer Ranch on my list either--tough walk but could be done. I probably should have included The Alotian...they certainly didn't encourage the walking bit when we were there.

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