Joyce's Ulysses and golf

[Fred_C.]

As I finish up a short story from Joyce's Dubliners with my boys, I get thinking about Joyce's landmark work, Ulysses.  As many of you know, Ulysses is a highly modern take on Homer's The Odyssey.  Well, most 20th century critics give Ulysses high praise because it's so breath-taking in scope, even as it dismantles classical notions of narrative technique.  I'm wondering if there are courses out there now that will eventually be considered classics (and be highly acclaimed) even as they "dismantle" or reconfigure classical notions of architecture.  The interesting thing to me is that "traditional" literary critics tend to like both Joyce's and Homer's versions.  Is there any golf architecture that is groundbreaking and will be loved by traditionalists?

Any thoughts?

FJC

[Rich_Goodale]

I think not.

Joyce's work was built on others (most notably DuJardin), and when he extended his investigation of DuJardin's technique of interior monologue from Dubliners, to "A Portrait" to Ulysses to Finnegan's Wake he reached a point from which even he could not recover.  Kinda like those paleontology trees that show some species or another branching off from the mainstream and then becoming extinct.  (Not mankind, surely?).

Today, Joyce's influence is confined to those who enjoy poring over historical curiosities and debating the minutiae of linguistics (sound just a little bit familiar?).  He is more of a Muirhead than a Ross, even though he gets a lot more relative respect than does oor Desmond.

As somebody said or implied or quoted some old master as saying on some other recent thread, the basic form and function of a golf course was set in concrete over 100 years ago. While it is interesting that a very few archies and a slightly larger number of armchair quarterbacks try to push that "envelope," the envelope is a strong one, reinforced by immutable physiology, psychology and history.

Just as is the novel and the communication of ideas through the printed word..........

[JakaB]

I think so,

The beauty of the flow of time is that the current traditionalist die at the same time the current crop of revolutionaries creep into traditionalism as senility and the lack of driving over 30 mph forces them to embrace the only things they can remember.  Gods greatest gift to the fight against ignorance and the reluctance to accept change is the inevitable death of tradition as it stands in any one moment of time.  What is new now will soon be old and the old will surely die...thats why they go to the light because each death brings sunshine to new ideas.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

I'm not sure about traditionalists or even what a traitionalist is in a golf architectural context. Golf architecture is a relatively young discipline when compared to say conventional architecture. There are eras of architecture that are studied by modern students, other eras that are not. Being old is not enough.

I would think the work of a Muirhead and a Strantz might be studied years from now -- but that is only a guess. Pete Dye was looked upon as a revolutionary in the 60's - although ironicaly many of his bold ideas were actually throwbacks and look less unorthodox today. His early work is studied (and his latter work also) by many young golf architectural students today, as opposed to the work of say a Dick Wilson or a RTJ (the two most popular designers of their era) is not. Its difficult to say what future generations might choose to study or appreciate.

[Bob_Huntley]

As with all things, golf courses included, it is best to remember something written by the noble Roman, Horace.

'Those that are great shall fall and those that have fallen, shall surely rise again."

Bethpage comes to mind.

[Rich_Goodale]

Bob

I've never seen or played Bethpage, although I have observed the hype that has caused it to "rise" over the past few years in anticipation of the open.  After June is it going to continue to rise, or like Carthage, might it again begin to fall?

Just wondering.

[Bob_Huntley]

Rich:

Inevitably.

Bob