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mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
 Kyle,

    You make me laugh, but actually they are just clueless ;D
AKA Mayday

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
The last two holes in the series are both from Merion East.  Can you guess which two were picked?  Apparently the assistant pro (forgot the name) and head pro (Kittleman) at the time were consulted by Gomalka.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
 Hard for me to come up with two good holes at Merion ;D but I'll say 11 18
AKA Mayday

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Hard for me to come up with two good holes at Merion ;D but I'll say 11 18

I'll give you and everyone else a clue (and this isn't to say your answer above is wrong or 1/2 right!):  the two holes chosen are consecutive.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
I will go 16 and 17.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
I will go 16 and 17.

Mark

Steeeeeeeerrrrrrriiiiiiiikkkkkkkeeeee one!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
17th in the series is the par 4 5th at Merion East:

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
My fave hole on the East is 5.  That's timeless strategy off the tee there: challenge the creek for the better angle into the green.  How wild is that green?!  They better not soften it for '13.

The other one?  Gotta be 18, right? Right?
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
My fave hole on the East is 5.  That's timeless strategy off the tee there: challenge the creek for the better angle into the green.  How wild is that green?!  They better not soften it for '13.

The other one?  Gotta be 18, right? Right?

Nice to see you have a job JNC such that you don't have time to carefully read the thread.  ;)

The two holes chosen at MEast are consecutive.  So do you predict #4 or #6 at the grand old lady to finish the series?
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Kyle Harris

My fave hole on the East is 5.  That's timeless strategy off the tee there: challenge the creek for the better angle into the green.  How wild is that green?!  They better not soften it for '13.

The other one?  Gotta be 18, right? Right?

You mean the timeless strategy of taking the shortest route to the hole.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
My fave hole on the East is 5.  That's timeless strategy off the tee there: challenge the creek for the better angle into the green.  How wild is that green?!  They better not soften it for '13.

The other one?  Gotta be 18, right? Right?

Nice to see you have a job JNC such that you don't have time to carefully read the thread.  ;)

The two holes chosen at MEast are consecutive.  So do you predict #4 or #6 at the grand old lady to finish the series?

4 or 6? Those are two of the least interesting on the course, no?  I guess I'd take 4 as the finisher--there has been a serious lack of 5s in the series.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
My fave hole on the East is 5.  That's timeless strategy off the tee there: challenge the creek for the better angle into the green.  How wild is that green?!  They better not soften it for '13.

The other one?  Gotta be 18, right? Right?

You mean the timeless strategy of taking the shortest route to the hole.

Yeah, I guess, but here, the shortest route to the hole is fraught with danger (the creek), and there is a ton of room to the right.  I can imagine playing the hole on a daily basis: starting out driving well right, then venturing closer and closer to the creek, until finally driving it into the creek one day.  The whole process starts over again the next round.  The strategy is timeless because the player never figures out one way to play the hole.  The shortest and best route is right there, but it takes some risk and mental fortitude to follow that route day in and day out.  The mental struggle of the hole is always there.

Of course, the angles and slopes are such there that the angle green gets incrementally better the closer the player drives to the creek.  I guess you could say the best option is to take the shortest route to the hole, but that option would be less risky and thus more appealing without the creek.  The creek, and the slope down to it, is critical.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 09:39:13 PM by JNC Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
The final hole in the series is the par 5 4th hole at Merion.  Note the lack of the two bunkers just across the creek.

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
#4 is an okay hole ; that's all. If you could get below the hole on the approach it would be better.
AKA Mayday

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
I was shocked to see #13 because outsiders miss the sublety and it isn't visually striking.. Then I read the article and see that the super picked it. It is the hardest hole because there is no easy putt after a tough approach. My favorite is #15. The usual suspects are #9 and #14.

Mayday

While I like the second a lot, I think the 13th was my favourite two-shotter.  It is the most distinctive par 4 on the course from a playing perspective.  The other superb hole is the 14th.  Why do you spose this hole wasn't selected?

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
The wrap up article is good as it gives other holes considered:

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 best Delaware Co PA golf holes: 1973 Delaware County Times
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2011, 02:42:20 PM »
 Sean,

   I was speaking of regular human beings in that comment; it was not addressed to the most insightful golf architectural expert in the whole world ;D The same one who somehow played RG but missed it!
AKA Mayday

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 best Delaware Co PA golf holes: 1973 Delaware County Times
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2011, 06:58:36 PM »
Sean,

   I was speaking of regular human beings in that comment; it was not addressed to the most insightful golf architectural expert in the whole world ;D The same one who somehow played RG but missed it!

Mayday

From the mouths of babes. 

I couldn't say I really played RG despite managing a few birdies - one of which was due to a ridiculous putt on #13 that deserved to run 10 feet long. 

Do folks really not like the 13th?  Its so different from the holes that this surprises me. 

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 best Delaware Co PA golf holes: 1973 Delaware County Times
« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2011, 07:28:06 PM »
 They like #13 but it isn't beautiful like so many other holes.
AKA Mayday

Kyle Harris

My fave hole on the East is 5.  That's timeless strategy off the tee there: challenge the creek for the better angle into the green.  How wild is that green?!  They better not soften it for '13.

The other one?  Gotta be 18, right? Right?

You mean the timeless strategy of taking the shortest route to the hole.

Yeah, I guess, but here, the shortest route to the hole is fraught with danger (the creek), and there is a ton of room to the right.  I can imagine playing the hole on a daily basis: starting out driving well right, then venturing closer and closer to the creek, until finally driving it into the creek one day.  The whole process starts over again the next round.  The strategy is timeless because the player never figures out one way to play the hole.  The shortest and best route is right there, but it takes some risk and mental fortitude to follow that route day in and day out.  The mental struggle of the hole is always there.

Of course, the angles and slopes are such there that the angle green gets incrementally better the closer the player drives to the creek.  I guess you could say the best option is to take the shortest route to the hole, but that option would be less risky and thus more appealing without the creek.  The creek, and the slope down to it, is critical.

Yes, the shot demand for implementing that strategy is higher, but the strategy is still the same.

In your example the player has figured out one way to play the hole, it's just that he may elect to choose another way to play it. Golfers make choices, not golf holes.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 18 best Delaware Co PA golf holes: 1973 Delaware County Times
« Reply #70 on: August 26, 2011, 07:23:32 AM »
Yes, Kyle, but isn't the choice to take another route dictated entirely by the placement of the creek?
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas