[Mike Cirba]

Mark Bourgeois,

That was one terrific post.   

Me, I'm a scorecard collector, and I agree it gives me a way to catalog my life to present.   

[Jim Franklin]

Jim,
There is a big difference, but I think the truth is somewhere in between. I'd suggest its probably around #40 in the US, which I guess splits the gap. Its still an improvement over not being on the list at all--it will be interesting to see if GolfWeek manages to get enough guys out there to rank it next time around.

Last I checked, GW was not accepted at Alotian. Nanea not accepting GD. FH not accepting anyone. Clubs can be funny.

[Tom_Doak]

Last I checked, GW was not accepted at Alotian. Nanea not accepting GD. FH not accepting anyone. Clubs can be funny.

Jim:

Often, clubs are funny about those sorts of things because some rogue rater from one of the publications acted like an ass at the club, and all of his fellow panelists take the punishment on his behalf.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mark B - that was indeed a terrifc post, but I will quibble. You wrote: "Lists bring order to chaos, help us grasp the infinite, and give us respite from thoughts about death."  I would counter that with:

"No, lists only remind us that we are whistling in the dark, wasting our days in the vain attempt to ward off fear instead of recognizing it, embracing it, and seeking its lessons; lists give us the illusion that we are grasping at the infinite while in truth serve only to ensure that the infinite moves ever further out of our reach; and lists give us not a respite from thoughts about death, but instead bring those very thoughts right in front of us, since we know in our heart of hearts that list-making is inherently the pursuit of the dead and dying, not of those vibrantly alive".

I suppose I should put a smiling face here so as to mitigate the dreariness of the precceding....

[Kalen Braley]

Sorry PP,

But I agree with Mark.  Its thru making lists and categorizing things that have led to everything around us.

Making lists, checking them, tweaking them, re-ordering them again, etc... is one of the core tenets of the scientific method...and the world still be in the stone ages without science!!

[David Kelly]

For more on this topic read Umberto Eco’s book, The Infinity of Lists.

[Mark Bourgeois]

For more on this topic read Umberto Eco’s book, The Infinity of Lists.

Or just rip him off and post his ideas as your own.

My defense, if I have one, was wanting to present his thoughts in the context of our discussion, to make them accessible. My plan was to give the thoughts room to stand on their own, then -- with dramatic flair -- to pull back the curtain. (But really, folks, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...)

Well caught, David. Seriously, are there any thoughts from the book relevant to this discussion that you could share? I haven't read it.

[Alex Lagowitz]

I happened to play Castle Stewart from the Barclays tees the tuesday after the tournament. It was a fabulous golf course and is certainly deserving of its ranking.  If you have the chance to play this course, you will be amazed at the quality of golf shots, strategy, and views. 
My favorite hole was the 2nd, which is a drivable par 4 that appears to have a gigantic driving zone (80 yard wide fairway), but at closer look if one wants an open, level shot to the green, the fairway is only about 30 yards wide and the right side flirts with the ocean.

[David Kelly]

Mark,
I have the book but haven't read it.  I remembered the remarks you wrote from an interview Eco gave about the book and about lists that caused me to buy the book in the first place.

But really what would this discussion group be if it wasn't for lists? The All-Uphill 18, what 10 books do you take to a desert island, list of UK courses, worst finishing holes, best opening holes, courses that end with a par 3, best logos, best clubhouses, best food, most underrated architects, best showers, best urinals...  The best part of this website - Courses by Country - is a list after all.

[Sean_A]

Is there a better way to gain an understanding of a subject, any subject, after enough knowledge is gained, than creating lists?  Do folks go through any single day in their lives without some sort of list to guide their day.  If not, I spose this is where the concept of listless came from - depressed, aimless, indifferent....I spent three years traveling the world with a pack on my back and I still used lists, although, the list could have been torn up in a moment's notice.  That part of the equation is something I may think about trying to re-introduce into my life.  But for golf its tough unless I find like-minded folks to convince me of the error of my ways.  However, as Mark laments, I will never understand "best of" lists (if taken at all seriously).  Lists have a far greater purpose than for that sort of trite usage. 

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

Yet one more reason why lists can be good.

http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-40544197


Anyone have any experience with any of these hotels?

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