[JNC Lyon]

I was thinking a little bit more about Morgan Hill today, and my favorite par five of the year, the 15th.  The split fairway tee shot is a highlight, with the low road along the canyon being especially dramatic.  The huge fairway littered with bunkers on the second shot is equally confounding.  However, one feature that really stands out is the shelf green.  Unlike many greens at Morgan Hill, the green on 15 is relatively flat in regard to interior contours, but its location is very bold.  The shelf green creates a great challenge on a reachable par five, where errant shots will likely funnel off the right, leaving an especially difficult recovery.

Here is a link to Bausch's photo of the 15th:
http://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/MorganHill/pages/page_103.html?

Questions:

What are your favorite shelf greens?  I am a big fan of this one at Morgan Hill, and I also love it on the reachable par five 8th at Burnham and Berrow.  6 at Dornoch is another standout.

Do shelf greens provide the greatest variety in short game options?  Think about it: recovery shots from all types of stances, giving players a chance to hit any club in the bag around the green.  The low side miss can leave very easy or very difficult recoveries depending on the hole location and skill level.

Do shelf greens work better on certain types of holes?  I think the shelf green works very well on a reachable five such as MH's 15th.

[Phil McDade]

A few that that I like...

This is at the short par 4 9th at Madison WI's Blackhawk CC (which has some Tillinghast in it), the high priest of short and funky Golden Era courses in these parts. A grand total of 347 yds from the tips, the typical play is a club that will find the narrow fairway, then a pitch sharply uphill (moreso than is depicted here in these pics) to a small green benched astride a hillside. Rough and three traps keep the short-right shot in the vicinity of the green; this is a real pucker-type short approach.





Here's the green of the par 5 12th at Blackhawk; the hole turns left and runs uphill most of the way after a drive from the elevated tee (and yes, the course plays quite narrow; at @ 6,100 yds from the tips, narrowness is one of chief defenses). The 12th plays to @ 530 yds, so going for this shelf green in two is a play for many.





Here's a neat shelf green at Old Hickory, about 45 miles NE of Madison, with eight original holes from Bendelow, and this is one of them -- the par 4 9th, which sweeps right out of the tee box (blind tee shot) into a valley, with an uphill approach made more challenging by the shelf-like greensite.

[Sean_A]

I really like shelf greens because it affords the opportunity for a dramatic shot without the negative of water or some other hazard which spells do or die.  

Probably my favourite is Pennard's 11th.  The target is hopelessly too narrow and with a false front, but the backboard offers some relief without being an automatic kick back.  



As JNC mentions, Burnham's 8th is a good one.  For those long enough, but not too long, the go for it 2nd shot on this par 5 is as good an approach shot as one is likely to see.  The hole is further enhanced by short grass down the right kick off, oob on the left and a carry bunker directly in the line of play.


Depending on how one wants to define a shelf green as compared to a plateau green (seems to me that many holes are a hybrid of the two), Burnham possibly has many other shelf greens such as the 2nd, 5th, 12th, 13th and 14th.  

It is rarely mentioned as a shelf green, but Deal's 6th could be considered one.  You decide.

  
Colt also did a few clever shelf greens at Prestbury - #5.

 


Ciao
 


 

[David_Tepper]

There is a nice shelf green on #7 (Par-4) at Burlingame CC, south of San Francisco.

[JNC Lyon]

Sean,

It seems like Colt built a bunch of shelf greens, especially on the par threes.  One I really like is his 12th at Denham, just North of London.  It is a short par three that is reminiscent of what I've seen of the 3rd at Wannamoisett.  Denham is a course you would like, no doubt--great set of Colt threes, as you would expect from him.

I forgot about 6 at Deal.  It is definitely a variation on a shelf green, though I guess it didn't become a shelf until the sea wall was built.

Is there any particular orientation that is favorable of a shelf green? I tend to think these greens are more interesting when they are approached from the side (as Sean's picture of 8 at Burnham shows), rather than from head-on like the 11th at Pennard.

[Mark McKeever]

Tumblebrook had a really neat shelf green.  I wish I had a picture to post, but its a 130 ish yard par three with a shaved left side that hangs on the hillside.  A very intimidating shot with a short iron.

Mark

[Steve Kline]

I believe it is the second at Cruden Bay. That was one intimidating second shot. And it only got more intimidating in the second round.

[Tim Gavrich]

The 7th hole at Palmetto GC in Aiken, SC must be an exemplar of this type of greensite.  Great par 3.

[Mark Chaplin]

Jon - the 6th at Deal was still a shelf it just went further into the shingle and was in fact surrounded by stones on three sides. It is a regret I never played the curse before the sea wall was built.

[Bradley Anderson]

Speaking as a greenkeeper, shelf greens are difficult to maintain because they have water issues from the upper elevations - water flowing across them at times when you don't want water. And typically they are more prone to shade issues becaue they are almost always over planted on the surrounds on account of the fact that they look naked without superfluous tree planting all around them.  

I think they are cool but not if you are expecting a lot of traffic on them.

[JNC Lyon]

Speaking as a greenkeeper, shelf greens are difficult to maintain because they have water issues from the upper elevations - water flowing across them at times when you don't want water. And typically they are more prone to shade issues becaue they are almost always over planted on the surrounds on account of the fact that they look naked without superfluous tree planting all around them.  

I think they are cool but not if you are expecting a lot of traffic on them.

Bradley,

We have multiple shelf greens at Oak Hill, but none of them have problems with drainage.  To me, a properly-constructed shelf green will ALWAYS drain to lower elevations.  Doesn't this have to do with the competence (or lack thereof) of the architect more than the type of green?

[Bradley Anderson]

Bradley,
We have multiple shelf greens at Oak Hill, but none of them have problems with drainage.  To me, a properly-constructed shelf green will ALWAYS drain to lower elevations.  Doesn't this have to do with the competence (or lack thereof) of the architect more than the type of green?

A true shelf green is benched in to the side of a hill. The elevation above the green drains across the green. I suppose you can make a small ditch behind the green to divert some of the surface water around the sides, but the subsurface water is always going to be higher in concentration under a shelf green for the simple reason that it is picking up ground table water from higher elevations. This can be especially troublesome on Poa greens in later February and early March, when the soils begin to thaw and the surface of the shelf-green bleeds water and freezes at night. I've seen it happen and it ain't purty.

If you build a shelf green just make sure it has multiple points of entry, and really good subsurface drainage.

[Sean_A]

Bradley

I buy that definition of a shelf green being benched into a hill, but does it need to so obvious or abrupt?  I can see folks calling Deal's 6th a plateau green and it probably is more that than shelf to be fair.  I am not sure how to keep a shelf green dry when it it pours unless its on sand.  I spose a less than ideal solution is to create a dip (no kick off from the hill!) on the high side and place a waste bunker there.  This would capture water in bad times and players would still get a free drop from casual water.  Its not a great solution, but it may work for shelf greens which already exist that have a problem.  The photo of Prestbury's shelfer has bunkers on the high side, but if they were to get wet than it would be a terrible situation.  I spose, regular golfers would know whats up there in bad rainy weather and try to avoid that lie at all costs.  

JNC

I don't know how many shelfers Colt built, I haven't seen that many considering his penchant for par 3s.  Southfield has one and its very good.  Perhaps Colt didn't often get very hilly land to work on.  Prestbury is about the hilliest Colt course I have seen and there two shelfers there - both very good.  I think Alison did Burnham's 8th to avoid the wet area down below.  The genius aspect of that hole is the dip on the high side of the green.  I think that was done on purpose as a safety measure for the 9th tee.  If balls kicked off that bank onto the green guys would be firing at that all time - of course causing a very dangerous situation.  The 12th-14th greens weren't done by Colt either, but Colt did do the 2nd and 5th.  

I like shelfers approached widthwise and longwise.  Question for ya, would you consider Huntercombe's 2nd and 3rd holes as shelf greens? They are not nearly as obvious as most because they lay on the land rather than dig into it, but are they shelfers just the same - especially #3?  


Ciao

[Ross Tuddenham]

I like the 170 yard 17th hole at braid hills which is a rather extreme shelf green which can provide great peril should you come up short.  There is deep valley you must cross from an elevated tee to reach the green that means depending on conditions you can end up very far down into the valley.  The wind is often strong, from left to right, and the green quite shallow so picking the correct club can prove difficult.  Come up short and the pitch will be both uphill and blind.

Here is a photo, sadly of poor quality as it was taken in the fading light of the day.



Notice Edinburgh castle and fife in the background, I think this adds to the fun of the hole.  It is possible to ensure you go long and hope you come down the banking behind the green or along the pathway to the next tee.

There are few subtle contours around some pin positions but in general the green is quite flat.  Do people think this is the norm for shelf greens and can this make them seem out of place if the rest of the greens are quite hilly?

[Matthew Rose]

Love Blackhawk CC. Has all the quirk you could ever want. Three par-fours under 300 yards, a short par-3 18th hole, back to back par fives.... so much fun.

Proof that length isn't everything.... about 6200 yards yet I've never shot anything near my handicap the three times I've played it.

Is #9 is the one where you take the elevator back to the clubhouse?

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