The creation of fear throught the configuration of

[Patrick_Mucci]

greens and back bunkers.

Piping Rock Golf Course presents what seems to be a unique challenge.

Many, if not most greens, are elevated, elevated substantially.

And, at the back of these greens, big, deep, wide bunkers lie well below the putting surface.

Many of the putting surfaces have a slight and sometimes pronounced slope back toward the rear bunker.
The slope behind the green is precipitous, such that any ball reaching the top of the slope is fed into the bunker, without fail.

When the hole location is at the back of the green, approach and recovery shots take on a more fearful aura.

Attacking the hole, aerially is dicey, for any ball hit long will find the back bunker, leaving the golfer with a very difficult recovery from a deep bunker where the flag is sometimes not visible.

Approach and recovery shots hit short are left with long difficult putts.

When the hole is cut to the back flank, the approach and recovery are even more difficult as shots missing to the short side are also penalized.

This seems like such a wonderful feature with which to challenge the golfer while retaining the element of fun.

Why don't we see more of this feature ?

Was it a basic design principle with some of the ODG's, pre irrigation systems ?

As a lark, I'd like to see a club like PRC hold a "back pin" tournament to see how golfers would approach these hole locations.
Would they attack them as they would a middle hole location, go aerial, go ground ?

What was also quite unusual is that it appears that PRC has planted Zyosia grass on the banks to enhance the feeding nature of errant shots.

How many modern courses have at least six (6) holes with elevated greens with steep back slopes feeding into back bunkers ?

[Bill Brightly]

I'll bet almost every Raynor course has 6

[Michael Moore]

The Black Rock Country Club in Hingham, Massachusetts.

[Jerry Kluger]

Pat: To me it seems kind of illogical to have 6 of the situations that you describe as I would guess that the vast majority of golfers rarely hit a shot over a green.  That may not be the case with top players but most people miss greens short or left or right - long is very unusual.

[Tim Nugent]

Pat, while I agree the setup is not common, I would hazard a guess that one should look toward the equipment of the day.  Piping Rock was done around 1911 I believe.  Back then, it was common practice to scoop out dirt from around greens and pile it up to elevate the putting surface. I'm sure some greens with bigger fills settled over the years, thus creating or enhancing any front to back slope.  Also, golf was more of a ground game then, so more balls chanced rolling through the green.

Interestingly enough, on my last design I have turned to this (although grass, not sand) as the tight site and safety rules resulted in more wide/shallow greens than I normally impliment. 

The choice of Zoysia on Long Island is interesting for a warm season grass.  I doubt they were thinking of it as a grass that would enhance ball roll as Zoysia is a very coarse, thick bladed grass that does not like being closely cropped.  More likely, they were after the incredible denseness on the slopes to standup to wear and thinning.  BTW, I Love Zoysia fairways, the ball sits up so nicely every time.

[Bill Brightly]

Pat may be looking at these bunkers as added defense of par, but they also serve a useful purpose, IMO. They curtail the playing area and keep long shots from reaching some really horrible areas that may be woods, scrub, hardpan, tree roots, and other areas that are simply not maintained and not suitable to play a golf shot.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Pat,

Nice subject, and here is my take....

I would only do that deep, blind, bunker if it saved players from going off the golf course. Like Tim, I would tend to make it grass, unless I felt sand had a better chance of saving the shots, OR if shade or dampness prevented good grass growth.

As I have said before, I prefer bunkers to be visible, and when I do back bunkers, I put them above the green and flash them up for visibility, making them quite shallow.

Besides visibility, there is some playability theory that argues against deep back bunkers:

First, a la George Thomas, if the back is the harder recovery, you sort of encourage mild play to the short middle of the green.  You have to ask if putting the pin in a challenging postion and then discouraging anyone from actually going for it makes much sense. Thomas advocated fairway beyond the green for long iron approaches, reasoning that a shot going just over the green was actually a better shot than one that comes up short.  Should that be punished more harshly, philosophically speaking?

Second, four out of five tour pros I ask say that playing from a downhill bunker lie to a close pin where the green falls away is plenty tricky, since the club naturally delofts, and you aren't making a full swing.  A Raynor bunker would encourage opening up the face, full swing and spin.  As much harder as those bunkers look, it may be a wash as far as getting the recovery shot close to save par.

Third, as noted, back bunkers usually see far less play overall, although your argument is correct in that the type of players likely to be affected by these bunkers would be good, and agressive players.  But, if put above the green and visible, they can be challenging, and contribute to the fear factor, even if only "making the course look more difficult than it plays" for average golfers.

Again, just my take.  Others may disagree.

PS- What do the gorgeous space aliens have to say on this matter, and how fast is your internet connection up there?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat: To me it seems kind of illogical to have 6 of the situations that you describe as I would guess that the vast majority of golfers rarely hit a shot over a green.  That may not be the case with top players but most people miss greens short or left or right - long is very unusual.

Jerry,

That's the beauty of repetition.

If you don't get your approach or recovery to the back of the green, chances are you'll have a bunch of three putts.

Sooner or later, the message and the challenge has to dawn on the golfer.

They need to risk getting to a back hole location, but, they can't be too aggressive.

The feature works brilliantly at Piping Rock.

[Jerry Kluger]

Pat: Many of us have not seen Piping Rock - some photos would help if someone has them.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

With my computer down, I am unable to post pictures.  You can go to photobucket and look up rsfpar and find Piping Rock among the courses in the photo albums.  I should have a least 70+ pictures

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Pat,

Piping Rock is a classic Macdonald course and a top notch Club to boot. Yet...

As a player of mostly Flynn products I would love to see rear, saving bunkers more often. Instead, behind the Flynn greens, misses encounter down slopes that carry the ball farther and farther away often into a grassy area that pitching back is no better than being in a bunker, perhaps worse.

Any one who shoots hard at a pin on any perimeter of a green deserves what they get if they miss.

Better off on a Macdonald green which has a saving bunker than a Flynn green which rejects you even farther on grass.