[DPL11]

Pine Valley #5
Anything left, right, or long=DEAD

[TEPaul]

DPL11:

You're right about PV's #5 but generally it's just left or right or short=dead.

Long is true but few other than the likes of Davis Love  actually experience that particular problem (which he did) on that hole!

[Joel_Stewart]

#2 at Pine Valley scares me more than #5.  The green is enough to make you wet your pants.

#11 at Shinnecock is tough because I'm usually pissed off at #10.

[wsmorrison]

The 11th at Shinnecock is a frightening and great hole.  First time I played it (8 iron) to one foot directly in front of the pin (back middle).  Got up to the hole, saw all the trouble (dreaded a shot from back left) and was glad for the tap-in.  After that, knowing the problems, it is a much harder tee shot and more frightening.  Ignorance is bliss.

Don't forget about #7 at Shinnecock, one of the great par 3s I know of (I'm thinking of it being the cover photo for my book on WS Flynn).  Any hole suggestions for back and front covers for the book?  A thread in the making?

What a great hole #7 is with all the trouble staring you in the face and one of the toughest greens anywhere.  How many puts end up in the bunkers on a given day?  Plenty I'm sure.

[THuckaby2]

11 at Shinnecock is a piece of cake.  What's to be scared of?

Tom "I took an 8 on the hole with only one putt" Huckaby
 

[Matt_Ward]

The master of shock -- Pete Dye, no one comes close. Take any of the holes previously mentioned, to wit, the 17th at The Ocean Course from the tips. Doesn't matter what type of wind you face, even downwind, the hole is an absolute terror. There are many others in the Dye portfolio that can also be included.

And, for those who mention the 17th at TPC / Sawgrass I'll give you another that makes that look like a piece of cake. The old 7th at Stone Harbor GC in Cape May Courthouse, NJ was designed by Desmond Muirhead. The hole maxed out to 190 yards and was dubbed "the Jaws hole." The 17th green at TPC / Sawgrass is chump change given the short yardage and large green.  

The old 7th at Stone Harbor featured a diamond shaped green with edges smooth as glass to keep balls from stopping, surrounded by water with two traps bulkheaded and set off from the green but also in water. I mean this was a hole where ANY number could be made. Given all the criticism the course took the hole was modified a few years ago. When you played this hole in ANY type of wind you literally feared that scoring an "X" was a real probability. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the hole was fair, but maxed out on the frightening meter. If the pros scream at the 17th at TPC / Sawgrass they would have had a heart attack in playing this one. Honorable mention goes to the hole before the 7th -- the 6th a tough par-4 that features water, an island fairway and a green bulkheaded with even more water.  

Three others to mention:

The 8th (par-3 248 yards) Wolf Creek at Paradise Canyon / Mesquite, NV. A tiger of a hole. You start with an elevated tee but then the thought goes through your head -- there is no place to be except the putting surface. Miss anywhere (but short) and you will be lucky to walk away with a double-bogey.

The other is the 16th at Desert Mountain's Geronimo Course / Scottsdale, AZ. The hole plays 491 yards and is one of the most demanding par-4's I've played. The tee is set on an angle away from the other tee boxes and requires an all-carry tee shot across a gaping barranca that swallows balls like Jaws. The more right you favor for a better angle the longer the carry. The carry is no less than 260 yards and if there is wind (usually into the face) you actually begin to wonder what ball should you surrender!

Last time I was there (2000) the extreme back tee was being worked on by maintenance crews. I still hope they have kept it because it is so unique and clearly frightening.

The 15th at Bethpage Black / Farmingdale, NY. Plays 466 yards and the tee shot is probably ther easiest part except you better hit the fairway. The approach is like hitting Olympus with the green perched on a hill 40-50 feet above the player.

This hole WILL make plenty of noise during the Open this June. Takes no prisoners and gives up birdies like a miser.

[Pete_Pittock]

The 18th at Carnoustie

[TEPaul]

Matt:

I think you won the prize there with the old #7 at Stone Harbor! Obviously the most horrifying shot in the history of golf. First time I faced that hole was into about a 20mph wind on a cold November day from the tips! I think I looked at my ball first to be sure I really wanted to commit it to suicide!

I'm probably the only person on earth who thinks the original Stone Harbor should be restored! It was so bad it was actually good--definitely one of a kind different and golf architecture needs that!

[Matt_Ward]

TEPaul:

I agree with you -- I only wish the club had kept the hole but played it from a more "reasonable" distance -- say around 130 yards like the TPC / Sawgrass hole.

To tell you a story I can recall playing the hole in the dead of winter from just behind the back tees and the wind was minimum 20-25 m.p.h. in our faces in 40 degree weather tops. I had to hit full driver and nailed it just left of the green. I hit the rear of the back left sand bulkhead and the ball popped up to the side about 30-feet in the air and landed on the green. To this day I just chuckle at such a "rub of the green" and so do my playing partners that day who had to cough up a "greenie."

Tom Paul don't forget the hole that comes before it. This one is also a honey. I've seen people go through that stretch and literally two "X" would have been lower. Muirhead, from what I understand, wanted to make the landing area to th eleft of #6 in play but from the tips you just have to play to the island fairway on the right.

What made the old 7th was that the diamond shaped green had no lips on the edges to stop any shot that had even the slightest of momentum from your approach. I actually saw someone play a chip from the back of the green to a front pin and had his shot fall into the water.

When you played the hole from the tips (190 yards) it was everything and more. When I hear the pros bitch about 17 at TPC / Sawgrass my friends and I literally fall off the chair because we always say we'd love to see them play the original 7th at Stone Harbor.

I would love to see the club change it back but that's not likely to happen given all the criticism. If the hole played from about the same yardage as TPC / Sawgrass I think it would be OK.

Arguably, a case can be made that playing the original holes from the tips at Stone Harbor may have been one of the most difficult courses you could play in the USA given the amount of water and usual wind patterns. That does not mean to say the course was great -- just diffiult and clearly frightening on a number of holes -- ditto the 2nd and 18th, to name two others.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Isn't the scariest shot the one with the potential for the most disastrous consequences resulting from a misplayed shot ?

# 18 NGLA, strong wind, crossing slightly in your face, pin ALL THE WAY BACK, your score for the first 17 holes, the best you've ever played, your opponent, a world class player, playing one of his best rounds, and you're all even, and.... after being overserved the night before, you foolishly bet your life savings, house and wife on the outcome of the match, well, let's make it really tense, you only bet your life savings and your house on the match.  

Now, you and Chipoat tell me, is that a scary hole ?
Is the third shot one of the scariest in golf ?

Now, same hole, same wind conditions, and you, Chipoat, myself and a fourth are having a casual match and a good time, it's still scary, but the consequences aren't as dire, our attitudes not as fearful.

Hence the scariest hole in golf begins between our ears, the physcological influence of our individually perceived predicaments and surroundings and the consequences of our misplays determine the answer for each of us.

[ian andrew (Guest)]

Just another way to look at your question Tom.

Could it be a short par 4 or  par 3 with a lot of trouble because they expect the par or birdie. If they don't make the score, they feel they have lost a stroke they should not have given up.

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