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Ally Mcintosh

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Modern European Architects
« on: March 16, 2011, 06:49:29 AM »
This is a thread to talk about and discuss work by European (incl GB&I) architects that are working in the modern era.

It is a chance to show your breadth of knowledge. I expect it to fall down the page very quickly.

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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 07:38:17 AM »
Ally,

Last time I went for a big resort job, I was told "You're a peon."  Do we get to talk about me?
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 07:46:35 AM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on March 16, 2011, 07:38:17 AM
Ally,

Last time I went for a big resort job, I was told "You're a peon."  Do we get to talk about me?

Jeff, we can get back to talking about you after we talk about some other people...

It's a shame that Brian Phillips doesn't contribute any more because he was one of a very few who could fly the flag on this discussion board...
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 10:15:40 AM »
Ally,

Without wanting to go away from the intent of this thread, which is a very worthy one and which demands some serious responses and conversation, has Brian stopped posting?  I didn't realise that he had and, if he has, will miss his contributions.

Now, surely there's someone with something to contribute?
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 10:44:07 AM »
Peter Nordwall is one of Sweden's most respected architects. He did some work on Falsterbo with Peter Chamberlain. Nordwall, who designed my home course at Bro-Bålsta in the early 1980s was very much influenced by his expereinces of UK courses. Bro-Bålsta has very large undulating greens and wide fairways. Water hazards are used very sparingly, and the course could be classed as open forest rather than parkland. I think Brian Phillips may have gained some experience with Nordwall.

Here are a few photos of Bro-Bålsta.


Evening view across the 5th green towards the 9th fairway.


Evening view from the back tee at the 510 m par 5 6th.


Early morning view from the tee of the par 4 10th.


Early morning view from the tee of the par 4 15th.


Evening view of the par 3 3rd green.


The par three 7th.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 11:06:43 AM »
Ally,

I have met a lot of the members of the EIGCA, and heard good things about several of them, but I have hardly seen any of their work at all.  Indeed, I wouldn't know what courses to go and see to judge their abilities ... most of the discussion seems to revolve more around their "potential" than around what they have actually built to date. 

Anytime I can find a listing of the best courses in Europe, it is headed up by Valderrama and by a bunch of Robert von Hagge courses, and the people you are referring to are nowhere to be found.  So, I will watch this thread closely, and hope that someone sticks their neck out and says that one course or another is good enough to judge them on.

I did meet Peter Nordwall in St. Andrews last year.  Very nice fellow, and I would love to see some of his work ... but I've never been to Sweden!
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Gary Slatter

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 12:04:05 PM »
does IMG count?  I noticed than Ian Woosnam and IMG are building a course on St Kitts.  2010 is one of their courses, why no name credit?  they must have a European stable.

Donald Harradine 's son (Swiss) is still working.  I worked with Donald at Corfu Golf Club.
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 12:28:48 PM »
Tom,

I don't solely mean to refer to EIGCA members... David Kidd & Frank Pont don't fall into this bracket although the former can no longer be deemed "European" with his only office based in the States...

One architect whose work I'm unfamiliar with but would like to see is Edwin Roald from Iceland.... I believe he's posted on here a couple of times. I met him briefly at an AGM once and enjoyed the cut of his jib... I like the look of a couple of his masterplans... Some good hazard placements...

Gary - IMG / EGD count of course... Stan Eby / Ross McMurray / Robin Hiseman / Gary Johnstone / Dave Sampson...

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Mark Pearce

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 12:49:07 PM »
There has been some discussion recently of Robin Hiseman's courses in Bahrain and the Czech Republic and, of course, his design for the Madrid Ryder Cup bid.  Then, of course, there was the work that Ross McMurray did at Celtic Manor.  Ross gave a really interesting insight into that work at last year's BUDA.
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

David_Tepper

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2011, 10:26:11 AM »
Speaking of Euro GCA's,who designed the Donnafugata course in Sicily, where the Euro PGA Tour is playing this week?
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2011, 10:36:24 AM »
There has been some discussion by our Antipodean bretheren of Hawtree's work in Australia.  Perhaps they could be persuaded to deal in specifics on this thread?
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2011, 10:38:37 AM »
Quote from: David_Tepper on March 17, 2011, 10:26:11 AM
Speaking of Euro GCA's,who designed the Donnafugata course in Sicily, where the Euro PGA Tour is playing this week?
Gary Player gets the credit.  Can anyone let us know who did the real work?
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Niall C

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2011, 03:19:17 PM »
Mark has already mentioned Robin Hiseman and I was lucky enough to get a tour from him of a redesign of a course up in Aberdeen quite a number of years ago. More recently I was able to play and see his handiwork on the Struie course at Dornoch which was a lot of fun. The course he designed in Dubai (?) and which featured on the European Tour recently certainly looks a lot of fun and also gave the pro's something different to think about.

Jeremy Ford, a good friend of mine has completed his first course under his own banner at Prague City which looks a real blast. I visited the site a couple of times duting construction and can't wait to get back to play it now its open for play. Jeremy has teamed up with Jonathon Davison who is on GCA, and Jonathon has designed the second course at Prague but I hear that one isn't likely to start soon. The third member of the team is Mick McShane who was lead shaper on Kingsbarns and the Castle Course. The guys have a couple of other courses in Bulgaria and Romania on the go and hopefully Jonathon can chime in with some news on how there getting on.

Speaking of Castle course, Paul Kimble was the lead guy on the ground on that one so I believe, and he also is the main guy on the new course at Gleneagles as well. I haven't played the Castle, only walked part of it, but I know others on here have and I'm sure they would be happy to comment. Anyone had an inside look at the Gleneagles course ? Anyone know how its going ?

Niall
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Adam Lawrence

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2011, 04:44:29 PM »
I've been to GWest, which is adjacent to but not part of Gleneagles. Paul took me round in Open week last year, but on the understanding I wouldn't write it up just yet. The owner is a Dubai businessman who bought up much of that area some years ago.

I liked it very much - it is certainly less edgy than the Castle course or Machrihanish Dunes, and it's a beautiful piece of land. There didn't seem any great urgency to get it open then, nor apparently, as I've heard nothing since, now. There are plans for a hotel and some very expensive houses; hard to imagine the latter happening any time soon, though the hotel might be a decent proposition in the runup to the 2014 Ryder Cup.
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

David Nelson

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2011, 05:23:56 PM »
Mark,

Greenmakers were the golf construction company at Donnafugata.

I am in Sicily this weekend for the ET event. Anyone else attending?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 05:29:34 PM by David Nelson »
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Jonathan Davison

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2011, 10:44:25 AM »
Thanks Niall for the mention. We (Ford Golf Design) have just finished 18 Hole at Prague City Golf Club, Czech Republic, we are close to finishing 18 at Sobienie Krolewskie Golf & Country Club in Warsaw. We have some interesting stuff hanging around so hopefully these will go into construction this year.

As for other architects in Europe I think there is a number good young architects at the moment, we just need enough work to keep them working.  I really like the work that Frank Pont and Philip Spogard are doing in Holland, I like the work Stuart Hallett is doing in France. Also Ken Kearney in Ireland is doing some nice renovation work.

I think we will see some interesting work in the next years, a few people have left larger firms and have branched out alone.
The guys from DMK, a few guys I worked with in Ireland Christian Lundin and Jeff Lynch, we just need enough work to keep busy.
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Niall C

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2011, 04:55:51 PM »
Jonathon

Any chance you can post some photos ?

Adam

I heard that they had a few environmental issues at G2 involving transplanting heather and such like. Any truth in the rumour ? Also, the land looks like fantastic rolling countryside. Have they done much shaping or have they largely gone with the flow ?

Niall
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Jonathan Davison

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2011, 01:37:16 PM »
Niall
A few pictures from Prague City GC and Sobienie Krolewskie GC in Warsaw.









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Niall C

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2011, 01:53:38 PM »
Jonathan,

Excellent stuff. Are the first three Prague and the last Warsaw ?

Niall
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Jonathan Davison

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2011, 01:58:58 PM »
Yes, Sobienie Krolewskie is a bit more rugged, pure sand.... nice to build. I am returning to Warsaw in a few weeks to finish the shaping with Mick McShane and to get the final seeding done. Hopefully I can take some good pictures to post.
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Tim Nugent

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2011, 02:19:31 PM »
Quote from: Ally Mcintosh on March 16, 2011, 12:28:48 PM

Gary - IMG / EGD count of course... Stan Eby / Ross McMurray / Robin Hiseman / Gary Johnstone / Dave Sampson...



Sorry, you guys don't get to lay claim to Stan Eby - he's one of us Yanks, a mid-western boy, got his start working with Dick Nugent Assoc. in the 80's. Stan was my helper on Golf Club of Illinois in '84.  My guess is that he probably helped train a bunch of IMG guys over the years.
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Coasting is a downhill process

Niall C

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2011, 02:29:45 PM »
Quote from: jonathan Davison on March 22, 2011, 01:58:58 PM
Yes, Sobienie Krolewskie is a bit more rugged, pure sand.... nice to build. I am returning to Warsaw in a few weeks to finish the shaping with Mick McShane and to get the final seeding done. Hopefully I can take some good pictures to post.


Jonathan,

Sobieie Krolewskie (doesn't that just roll off the tongue ? NOT) looks as flat as Prague but it looks as though you've been a wee bit more subdued with some of the contouring, fair comment ?

Also, are you getting Mick in to finish off with his trademark spill offs  ;)

Niall
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Jonathan Davison

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Re: Modern European Architects
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2011, 02:42:27 PM »
Sobienie is subtle, we had pure sand but an extremely high water table and a small budget. We mellowed the shaping but spent more time on the details. We transplanted a lot of heather to the bunkers and created a more rustic golf course. The course needs a bit time, but I am sure by the middle of summer it will look very interesting.
I have to keep a tight rope around Shaney, he will have spill off's everywhere.......

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