THM! Alps Region - 2nd Round - #1 Prestwick 17th vs #9 RSG 5th

[Richard Choi]

Here we go again! You have till the end of the day Fri to cast your votes.

Seed #1 - Prestwick 17th

Tale of the tape: Par 4, 391 yards

Why: The original. The hole is so good others decided to copy it. Nuff said.






Best Comment:

This seeding worked out perfectly for me, since I've played both Yeamans Hall and Prestwick.

Prestwick's 17th is pure fun from tee to green.  The tee shot is not highly strategic, but I like the drive because the landing area is wide enough so, even after a wayward tee shot, players will have a chance to take on the Alps approach.  The green itself exists out of prescription in that fits beautifully between two large dunes.  While modern architects might have seen the need to bulldoze the dune in front of the green, the 17th green is just there, with the dugout bunker standing as the hole's only artificiality.

The second shot can only be described as thrilling.  During my day at Prestwick, the wind was howling in my face.  This meant that I had to rip a two-iron into the green on both tries, despite the hole being under 400 yards.  The sight of the golf ball disappearing over the dune is surely one of the greatest feelings in golf, as is scrambling to the top of the hill to see the result.  A poorly played shot may find the bunker, but a solid hit will either come to rest on the green or in an awkward position off the putting surface.

It is not until the player gets past the famous Alps bunker that things get really interesting.  The green is a rippling halfpipe.  Any shot that does not find the perfect position relative to the flag will leave a difficult recovery.  However, taking the blindness of the second shot into account, the green's sideboards always allow the creative golfer a legitimate chance for an up-and-down.  It is great fun to play pitch shots and long putts well to the side of the hole and watch them drift back towards the pin.  Each of the two times I played this hole, I spent 10 to 15 minutes around the green trying all sorts of shots.  The endless array of shot game options, combined with the thrill of the blind second, is what makes the Alps at Prestwick so timeless.

[Richard Choi]

Seed #9 - Royal St Georges 5th

Tale of the tape: Par 4, 460 yards

Why: From Ran - This hole and the next were par threes under Laidlaw Purves‘s initial routing. One reason is that the dune line down the left ran all the way to the property’s edge. Laidlaw Purves didn’t have the inclination, the equipment or the budget to alter the dun escape. However, all that changed within twenty-five years from the course’s opening. A gap was knocked into the dune some three hundred yards from the tee and a new, bunkerless green was built on the dune’s other (left) side. Thus, today’s striking par four was born.







Best Comment:

I really enjoyed the 5th at Sandwich.  It's the reverse of Prestwick in that all the trouble is off the tee rather than on the approach.  The hole is very busy on the tee shot, with the longer hitter having to thread some sort of layup between the bunkers and the dunes.  Hug the left for a decent view and shorter shot into the green.

Once you push between the two dunes, you come out on the other side to see a green that is completely barren.  It has no bunkers and no extraneous contours, with only the English Channel and Ramsgate as a backdrop.  Even so, the green is very interesting, with a wild false front that can confound recovery shots from all sides.

Sandwich's 5th is a sleeper hole at this year's Open venue.  I'm not sure if it is an Alps, but it is an excellent hole nonetheless.

[Sean_A]

I will stick to my guns and say that the original is not really what templates are about.  Templates in the way the word has been used in golf circles are the holes inspired by the original.  My vote goes to Sandwich on a default.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Richard makes the rules.  Prestwick is an Alps and it's a better one than RSG.  Prestwick.

[jeffwarne]

Prestwick,
what an awesome green.

I'm taking the coward's way out on this one as it's hard to argue with the original----in this round

[Mark McKeever]

Prestwick.

Mark

[Giles Payne]

RstG is a great hole - I haven't played Prestwick but it wins down to the green and its proximity to the Alp.

[Mark Saltzman]

I made an 8 the only time I played 9 at RSG.  Maybe it's just bad memories, but I vote Prestwick.

[JNC Lyon]

I definitely enjoyed the 5th at Royal St. George's.  The tee shot is more strategic than the one at Prestwick, and the second shot approach through the gap in the dune is very cool as well.  While the green there is barren, it is still filled with interest.  However, Prestwick wins on account of the greensite, which is more intricate than the one at RSG.  Furthermore, Prestwick's gaping Alps bunker suffers no fools, whereas Sandwich gives up a duff or two, contrary to the heroic nature of the Alps Hole.  I vote Prestwick.

Mark S,

The Alps at RSG is the 5th, not the 9th.  Both are fine holes in their own right, and your score on the hole is an arbitrary and ultimately poor way to judge the hole's architectural merits.  I'd love to hear your thoughts on the architecture at RSG's 5th.

[Mark Saltzman]

JNC,

Sorry, I meant 5 but wrote 9 (the hole is seeded #9...and I did, in fact, make my 8 on 5).  My writing that I made an 8 was meant to be tongue in cheek and probably needed some sort of smiley icon to make that clearer.  It did not have any impact on my vote or architectural opinion of the hole.

I liked the 5th at RSG.  As I recall it allowed the aggressive/precise player the opportunity to get a clearish view of the hole.  What struck me was how wide open the greensite was.  While I suppose it was necessary to allow a player to 'miss' his approach given the fear in hitting the second shot over the dunes, I felt that on any return visit to the course any player would not be as excited by the hole or the approach, knowing how much room there was by the green.  Only a really poorly struck approach will actually find trouble in the dunes. 

As has been said several times already, the greensite at Prestwick 17 is just better.  The Alps are much more in play and thus much more frightening.  The wild green undulations and the Sahara bunker are the reasons that this hole is the template.  Prestwick wins.

[JNC Lyon]

JNC,

Sorry, I meant 5 but wrote 9 (the hole is seeded #9...and I did, in fact, make my 8 on 5).  My writing that I made an 8 was meant to be tongue in cheek and probably needed some sort of smiley icon to make that clearer.  It did not have any impact on my vote or architectural opinion of the hole.

I liked the 5th at RSG.  As I recall it allowed the aggressive/precise player the opportunity to get a clearish view of the hole.  What struck me was how wide open the greensite was.  While I suppose it was necessary to allow a player to 'miss' his approach given the fear in hitting the second shot over the dunes, I felt that on any return visit to the course any player would not be as excited by the hole or the approach, knowing how much room there was by the green.  Only a really poorly struck approach will actually find trouble in the dunes.  

As has been said several times already, the greensite at Prestwick 17 is just better.  The Alps are much more in play and thus much more frightening.  The wild green undulations and the Sahara bunker are the reasons that this hole is the template.  Prestwick wins.

Mark,

Even though there is a lot of room around the green at Sandwich's 5th, the green has enough movement in it to require a very precise approach shot.  While the player might be lulled into a sense of security after one play, I think playing the hole multiple times reveals a sharp test on the approach shot.

Sorry to react harshly to the score comment.  I always get suspicious when people use their score as a means for judging architecture.  I think too many people arbitrarily rate golf architecture based on how it fits their own game.  Ultimately, I think your analysis of Sandwich's 5th was strong the second time around without using score as a measuring stick.

Ty Webb: I don't keep score.
Judge Smails: Well, how do you measure yourself with other golfers?
Ty: By Height.

[Pete_Pittock]

Played both courses. I don't see how the tee shot is more difficult at RSG. Prestwick is a sliver fairway with a plethora of bunkers which require a SW escape. Trust me.

I like original recipe KFC better than the other versions. The same here. Vote for Prestwick.

[Richard Choi]

Prestwick leads 7-1. The voting ends tomorrow night!

[Bryan Izatt]

Played both courses. I don't see how the tee shot is more difficult at RSG. Prestwick is a sliver fairway with a plethora of bunkers which require a SW escape. Trust me.

I like original recipe KFC better than the other versions. The same here. Vote for Prestwick.

Peter, I want to trust you, but there are no no fairway bunkers on the Alps 17th at Prestwick.  And the fairway is not a sliver.  See the aerial above.  I suspect you are thinking of the 15th hole which indeed has a sliver of a fairway and a plethora of pots.

[Sean_A]

Played both courses. I don't see how the tee shot is more difficult at RSG. Prestwick is a sliver fairway with a plethora of bunkers which require a SW escape. Trust me.

I like original recipe KFC better than the other versions. The same here. Vote for Prestwick.

Pete

I don't know which drive is more difficult, but the tee shot at Sandwich is infinitely more interestiing than at Prestwick. 

Ciao

[Kevin Pallier]

Another vote for Prestwick.

[Richard Choi]

Prestwick get a lot of love from folks around here. 8 and 1 win and faces old mac next.