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RJ_Daley

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Re: Honoring Billy Bell Jr.--Torrey Pines South
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2002, 03:24:37 PM »
Interesting weekend scoring.  Jose goes 67-65 t win.  Bob May goes 77-65, and Greg Chalmers sets the newest - new course record today with 63, after 75 Saturday.  In looking at the whole field scores, it seems a whole bunch were in the mid to upper 70s and a few 80s.  It doesn't seem to favor notoriously long hitters.  Is this explained because the players are not familiar with the new course features, or why would there be such disparities of scores from day to day?  I don't thing wind was the factor.  Is it length or unfamiliarity?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
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Pete L

Re: Honoring Billy Bell Jr.--Torrey Pines South
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2002, 12:52:19 PM »
I attended the Buick at Torrey South on Saturday and here's my observations: I think overall Rees did a very good job improving the course without totally losing its original character (very much like Bethpage Black). It should be noted that not one mound could be found anywhere on the course! The original fairway bunker sites were retained, and additional ones were added on the other side of the fairway to narrow the landing areas, which were only 30-35 yards wide. The addition of the new back tees now makes the bunkers complexes 280-300 yards from the tee on almost every hole. There is none of the randomness of bunkering ala Eckenrode at Barona Creek or Doak at Pacific Dunes. They should play great for the 2008 Open (if we get it), but what happens when Ty Tryon's son enters the 2028 Buick Invitational? The original pushup greens were at ground level in the front and sloped to 5-6 feet in the back. Rees elevated all the existing green sites 3-4 feet in the front, so they now slope up from 1-2 feet from front to back. All the new greenside bunkers are at least 3-4 feet below the level of the green. This should give the average muni hack plenty of trouble but the Tour Pros I saw had ZERO trouble with them. I would love to see the stats on sand saves this past week; I never saw anyone fail to get his sand shot to at least 3 feet!  Rees has built the world's friendliest bunkers here. I know the PGA Tour groom's its bunkers to perfection but this was ridiculous. Maybe the fact that they were unplayed on for 3-4 months could be a factor. The actual sand surface was very flat, leaving level lies for most shots. Bring back the Oakmont bunker rakes! The four brand new green sites are a nobrainer, they will be reguarded as the best holes on the course. Bringing the 3rd, 4th and 14th right to the edge of the canyon will make for some real excitement. There was absolutely no way to lenghten the par 5 6th and 13th, so they are still very reachable. The 18th and 9th can be made virtually unreachable and can now be played as 3 shot holes. I actually saw John Cook hit a fairway wood into the par 3 16th(OK he hit to 3 feet) but the par threes are no pushover anymore. The kikuyu is dormant this time of year so the rough was mainly rye grass which presented a less than half shot penalty, this will not be the case in June when the kikuyu kicks in. Subtract the 4 under most people shot on the North Course and change two par 5's to par 4's and the most likely winning score would be near even par. Definitely worthy of the US Open.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Honoring Billy Bell Jr.--Torrey Pines South
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2002, 08:19:04 PM »
Pete L,

Thanks for the report.  I'm starting to believe that rakes are the ruination of the game, unless they have Oakmont grooves! :)

However, I have to ask.  What is your issue with the randomness of the bunkering at Pacific Dunes and Barona?

It seems that what you described about Rees's addition of "driving zone bunkering" for the pros is EXACTLY what his dad did at Oakland Hills, etc.  Isn't that type of "pinching in" the driving zone essentially a very non-imaginative, boring, tried and boring way to force challenge?  I mean, cmon...can't Tiger and Daly carry those suckers if they mean to?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Honoring Billy Bell Jr.--Torrey Pines South
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2002, 09:02:06 PM »
Was it just me or was most of that white stuff eye candy for a glaucoma sufferer?

And Tommy since my absence I missed the wind up on your bunker excersizes. Was the first at Torrey? or any of them?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Pete L

Re: Honoring Billy Bell Jr.--Torrey Pines South
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2002, 05:44:39 AM »
Mike C;  That was my point exactly, the random bunkering of Doak and Eckenrode lead to a timeless creation, it will catch everyone at sometime, however not on every hole. The target zone technique was a page out of Ree's dads book. However in his defense, by keeping the existing fairway bunker complexes intact he really just followed Billy Bell's roadmap. Remember Torrey was never a Golden Age course, more from the 50's or 60's school which though this was the way to put a stop to low scores by professionals. What it really does is make work for archies in the future.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »