Pinnacle Point

[Mark Bourgeois]

Not much time for commentary other than to say I am fond of this course, despite it containing many things personally found objectionable, such as sacrifice of routing integrity and design-for-cartball.  When enough Golf Mag raters get here it likely will land in the top 40.  Although the architecture as a whole is not "great," very few will have the ability to see that as the setting is unbelievable, with whales, surfing dolphins, fynbos, songbirds and caves inhabited by man 150,000 years ago.

Arguably the greatest collection / number of fun and of thrilling shots anywhere.  Despite the rapidly-expanding housing and cart requirement, the golfer will feel a powerful bond with nature.

Benchmark course might be Kapalua. (Haven't played it so can't compare.)

Philip G had comments re difficulty.  Use the "Strantz Strategy" and the problems are greatly reduced: move up a set of tees.  Most of these pics are from 5,600 meter tees; however, some are from the round played from the 6,300 meter tees.

1 -- several holes use offset tees to powerful effect. Here the golfer must curb his instinct to challenge the left side




2




3




4 -- Vaguely reminiscent of Rye 4 -- views are better but hole isn't as good, particularly green complex. Again, many though will look past the architecture and marvel at the infinity green



5 -- a blast of a hole to play. Safe play to right of bunkers, 250 meter carry over the middle bunker -- made it! -- sets up nice second shot into this par 5 green. Really aggressive play over left bunker sets up even easier shot.





6




Mark

[Mark Bourgeois]

7 (Sorry for the quality of the videos -- upload clearly loses a bit of resolution. Included anyway as video does a better job capturing the drama and dynamism of the place.)



8 -- 230 meter all-carry direct route to the green or intimidating bailout to the left. Thrilling hole



9 -- from the back tees, the most-intimidating shot I've ever experienced.  But move up and it becomes one of the most-fun holes to play.  Aim to carry the first bunker on the left and the hill feeds the ball right down to the green.  Bounce and roll of ball is satisfyingly a long-drawn out affair.  Green is brown owing to leaching problems of irrigation water into ancient caves directly below (club is putting in a liner). Rolls fast and true.




Mark

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Very impressive.I was going to ask who is the architect and where is it located but I decided to google it:

www.pinnaclepoint.co.za/golf_course.htm

The answers are:

1.Peter Matkovitch with Darren Clarke
2.South Africa

What other work has been done by Matkovitch?

[Philip Gawith]

Steve, Peter Matkovich is a Zimbabwean who has been working in South Africa for quite a while. He has been the dominant figure over the last decade in terms of getting new/prestige assignments (ahead of Gary Player, Ernie Els and  Jack Nicklaus who would be the only other contenders). I am not aware that he has done anything outside of southern Africa.

Maybe the best known course he has done pre this was Arabella, about an hour outside Cape Town.

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:

I have not been to South Africa since the course opened, but I look forward to getting down there someday.

FYI, there are zero courses in the top 50 in the world today which aren't easily walkable.  Kapalua is a great course, but doesn't sniff the top 100, and the walkability probably has something to do with that.

My question would be, does the course have a cool set of greens?  There aren't many top 50 courses that don't have an EXCELLENT set of greens.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Tom

No way do I think it's top 50 but more fool me for trying to divine the opinions of others.  It doesn't have a cool set of greens, although 9 is fantastic and 4, 6, 15, 17, and 18 are fun.  The bunkering is too loose, the greens too subtle. For example, 7 green looks like an all-green painter's palette or pizza tray, with a coupla mozzarella balls off to the side.

But how many golfers are going to stand on that tee and say, "What an unartistic green!"

The big question is, how many second-shot thrillers (throw in a few driver shots, too) justify a routing whose purpose appears to transport the golfer, like a Disney ride, from one fun shot to the next?  The routing sacrifices seamlessness and holistic integrity. That said, it's not like a video game or tribute / best-of course.  The holes feel like they belong on the same course and there's a rhythm.  Also, it's not like the non-ocean holes are dogs: 4, 5, 15, and 17 are quite good.

As for the barrel-of-monkeys shots, I count 9 -- 5, 7, 8, 9, 13, 16, 17, 18 tee and 18 second.  Before, I never would have thought there was a course whose individual shots could justify the sacrifice.  After, there still isn't such a course in my experience.

But it's close.  Throw in the setting and I say 99% of golfers have zero chance of judging the course on its "merits," at least beyond the merits of the great shots.  Your panelist peers must have a better shot than most.  They will do well to play the course more than once!

Seriously, how many have a chance against this?


Durban is a much, much better course (what it's doing down there in GM's 90s -- along with St George, and, for that matter, how Congo could appear anywhere at all in that list -- only proves how little I understand these "rankings") but I will wager you Pinnacle outscores it in every poll, every survey, now and forever.

Mark

PS Philip G's pics a few months ago probably sated everyone's interest, so rather than go through each hole, here are the highlights of the back nine...

12



13



15 -- neat false front



16 -- fun second shot with a wood or hybrid -- if you go for it



17 -- green angle + depth + downhill turns expected bailout shot of short and front into very surprising -- and demoralizing! -- long and right

View from right side:



18 tee



18 second -- if you go for it



18 green




Distractions:

40-50 dolphins surfing and leaping



Whales blowing



Whales and pounding surf



Caves inhabited by man 150,000 years ago -- wonder if they knew 13 tee would be their roof some day



Thrilling cart rides like from 12 tee to 12 fairway



So long

[Matt_Ward]

Mark:

Great photos and commentary.

Would love to know where you place the course on your personal list of all courses
played?

One other thing -- just for an FYI -- has the course been sloped and course rated yet?

Final question -- the hole in which the mounds bracket the green so tightly -- forgive me
if I didn't pay attention -- is that a par-3 hole and what is it's length whether it be a par-3
or otherwise?

Do you see that hole being really fair from any sane point of view?

Many thanks ...

[Mark Bourgeois]

Thanks, Matt.  My experiences with nonlinks oceanside courses (including "oceanlike" bodies of water) as a whole disappoint against expectations.  They are exactly like restaurants: the better the view the worse the food. 

Off the top of my head, here's a list of courses played in this category, with the scores on a scale of 10 and factoring in the architecture only:

Pebble 9

Casa de Campo 8
Chambers Bay 8

Kiawah Ocean 7
New South Wales 7

Pinnacle Point 6

Torrey Pines South 5
Kauri Cliffs 5

Whistling Straights 4
Spanish Bay 4

Discovery Bay 3
Wild Dunes Ocean 3

You can take the Pinnacle score to mean it didn't disappoint me.

If the holes were tightened up in the routing to improve walkability, I might score it an 8, even with the elevation changes and up-downs due to holes spanning ravines.  (No doubt, many still would call it unwalkable.) The overall fun of the round deserves credit.

The main architectural issues beyond walkability are:

* Could use a little more second-shot variety.  If you've played the right set of tees, you will be coming into the spectacular greens out there with a 9 iron or wedge.  But to your point re fairness, that's fair given the challenges!

* Uphill second shots.  I didn't mind them too much, but perhaps others will.  This relates to my criticism of the routing, that it seems the point is to transport the golfer from one thrilling shot to the next.  Again, many won't mind, but the golfer does face uphill second shots on 1, 2, 3, 6, 10, 11, and 14.

* Green complexes memorable mainly for their setting and / or rings of bunkers.

* Sacrifice of overall routing to max out on thrill shots.  (Many will file this under the "give me a break" category, as in, that's the point of the place.)

Alternatively, if we were just talking overall experience, incorporating the architecture but also the views and especially genius loci or sense of place, even with the houses and as a cartball course, I would score it an 8. (That's excluding the "resort" experience: although the lodging is nice, the amenities and overall management are substandard.)

I would hazard a normal (non-GCA.com) golfer coming through would score it a 10.  Setting + thrill shots = overwhelming.

The course sits in one of the world's seven floral kingdoms on cliffs that are incorporated into the architecture, with the next stop looking south being Antarctica.  It's hard to see past that -- plus the thrilling shots -- to the inherent design.  That for many is missing the point entirely, as the setting and the thrilling shots are the point of the place.

The hole you mention is the 6th and from member tees it's about 330 yards.  The carry from the tee is the tough bit: despite the shortish length, this was the most-intimidating tee shot on the course.  (There is a drop area on the far side of the chasm.)

Once you're over, the framing of the greens by the mounds actually helped me visually.  The shot for most should come out around 140-150 yards.

I will say the hole played easier, considerably easier, for me than the 7th at Cruden Bay. And to Tom D's point re greens, it provides some interest on the putting and chipping front.

As for sanity and fairness, IMHO this hole and every other out there passes the test if the golfer is willing to play from the correct set of tees.  Some holes out there have EIGHT tees.  If you play from the correct set of tees, you should have a lot of 9 irons and wedges into greens.  On the one hand, that's an architectural deficiency.  But it's somewhat offset by 3 of the par 5s offering hybrid or wood approach shots.

It is not a fair course for someone with a handicap above say 19.  Even from the correct set of tees, some of those second shots are real testers, and there's too much sand.  They might not care though as the shots are thrilling, especially if they didn't pay too much for their golf balls.

It must have been rated by the S Afr GA but I don't have the card handy.  Will look for it when I get a chance.

Mark

[Matt_Ward]

Mark:

Thanks for your detailed comments.

The pictures are simply awesome stuff but I know the feeling when you say about courses of that nature being more show than actual playing glow.

Thanks for seeing if you have the scorecard and if there is a course rating / slope for it. Be curious to see how the numbers stacks up at different tee boxes.

Mark, you give Pebble a 9 -- do you see the overall weaknesses of the course there? I mean there are a number of inferior holes -- as many as a third of the layout.

In regards to Pinnacle Point I don't place a mega emphasis on the walking side provided the cart rides don't become the dominant ingredient when playing the course.

In your description of the hole I mentioned -- is there a realistic option provided to go for the green or is it merely a forced lay-up shot off the tee to have the distance you mentioned. I see from the photos provided the narrow gap from which the green sits -- do balls routinely kick down off those mounds or do they get stuck there in many instances.

Thanks again for such a detailed response.

[Philip Gawith]

Mark I remember when I went round the call the 6th hole was one which made me worry a bit. I am sure your point about choosing the right tees is generally right, but i do recall thinking on that hole that there was no way my wife would be able to manage that carry.

I agree with most of your assessment. I described the course as "hyper-heroic" and I still think that phrase does capture what is distinctive about the course, alongside peerless visuals.

[Bill_McBride]

The whole place looks tremendous and exciting, sorry I won't be able to join the South African trip this winter.

Some of the carries look daunting, is there always a safe and manageable bailout?

The green complex at #6 is the only unnatural looking part of the course, is that an accurate assessment (based on the photos) when playing the course?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Philip

Yes a good point.  There's no tee on the other side and the carry from the shortest tee is around 110 yards.  No picnic.  I think from the up tees the course is more playable than you might conclude from that one hole.  Not saying it's easy.  There is a handicap line in the sand of sorts where if you're above that, the course must feel like goofy golf or Tiger Woods '08 set to "pro" difficulty.  Personally, I think that line is higher than I suspect you do.  Regardless, it does not provide the greatest pleasure for the greatest number, and that's a flaw.

Matt

Good questioning and much appreciated.  This course is a stern traditionalist-dogma challenger.  Besides the walking issue another place it hits me where it hurts is I am a sum guy not a parts guy but the parts down there are so amazing!  

I have the S Africa GA’s course ratings for Pinnacle:
Senior 68
Club 71
Blue 73
Black 75

These are off two scorecards and all these tees are qualified as “Men’s.”  The yardage book indicates a fifth “official” tee but I have no details on it other than to note it is the shortest tee.

Re 6, it’s not driveable.  The fairway's uphill and balls die into the slope.  Also, note the hill behind the right-hand bunker: this is a long-drive killer.  Besides being a hill, it’s covered in rough and kills momentum.  (Hmm, would be kinda neat if they had sculpted that hill to feed down to the green.)

One day I played with two guys who could have played fullback for the national rugby team.  One of them had three goes with the driver and the best he got was about 285 yards, up that hill beyond the right-hand bunker.  Of note: he lost all three balls in the fynbos right.  

The slopes around the green are maintained as rough.  The slopes are fairly steep at the top but grade out near the bottom, producing a sometimes / sometimes-not situation with respect to balls getting caught up.  Most often thing I saw were balls coming partway down the slope but not making the green.  Make of that what you will.

If you’re looking to have a go out there, don’t look to the 6th but to the 8th.  From the club tees it’s a 257-yard carry and from the backs it’s 270.  A good day sees me carry the ball 230/240 yards but I made the 257 2 times out of four – plays shorter due to slightly elevated tees.  Into a 1-club wind on one of those attempts saw me fall just short of that front bunker.  So it does play shorter than the yardage.

Other he-man fun-shot carries are the tee ball on 5, where the ball hangs against that lovely sky forever plus a day, the question of carrying the bunkers supplying the drama; the tee ball on 18, where the ball hangs forever less a day, and the second shot on 18, which in the calculus of how-far-would-you-go probably stands as the shot I would travel farthest just to hit.

Regarding Pebble, yes I appreciate the demerits of the holes but that’s not how I think of the course.  As mentioned, I’m sum not a parts guy and Pebble’s got the sum, not as much as personal sum-champs Pinehurst #2 and Ganton, but still strong.  The course has a great rhythm made possible in part by the lesser holes and in fact I am fond of a number of the holes off the ocean, particularly 13 and 16.

Mark

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm not sure this is a fair comparison, but many of the pictures remind me of Bay Harbor in MI.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Bill

Re safe and manageable bailouts, mostly yes.  The key is choosing whatever set of tees makes you comfortable with the carries involved.

The exception, and in an odd way, is 8: the safe route to the left is perhaps a *more* intimidating tee shot than going right at the green!  I think this is because going at the green is a rear-back-and-whack shot whereas "safe" is the type of shot you end up trying to steer, with predictably bad results.

Also, there's a drop zone next to the green, so if you clear the hazard but then roll back into the Indian Ocean, you can try to get up and down for a 4.

How many holes have the risk-reward set up so that the safe route can feel riskier than the risky route?!

No, 6 did not feel particularly odd, although I can see from the pictures how it might.

I find it interesting both of you are focusing on 6.

8 seems like a functional clone of Cypress Point 16 (note: functional, not aesthetic), and 18 seems like Kapalua 18.  But I haven't played either of those holes and wonder if that's the case.  I will say that Pinnacle 18 doesn't seem to have quite the right grading short-right of the green to get that nice long kick forward and down, but that might not be needed for those who boom the tee shot, as the distance from fairway to green may be carryable with a hybrid or long iron.

Mark

[Mark Bourgeois]

I'm not sure this is a fair comparison, but many of the pictures remind me of Bay Harbor in MI.

Mike, do you mean the individual holes and shots?

[Niall C]

I'm just back from a trip to South Africa and had the "pleasure" of playing Pinnacle Point. Indeed I was meant to play it twice but unfortunately was unwell the first day and spent much of it lying on the couch in the locker room. On the second day the group I was playing with moved to play the "correct" tees as Mark would call it to cope with the numerous forced carries.


I had a good day on the course despite, or perhaps because it was blowing a hooley. A memorable day for sure and I suspect there isn't a hole there that doesn't provide panoramic views. I think the architect did a great job on such challenging terrain but its not a great course IMO. It's probably what you'd call a modern day holiday course built for thrills and views but not much really good golf. Others will probably disagree but I prefer golf courses to be more horizontal than vertical 


Niall 


 

[Philip Gawith]

Assume you played some other courses Niall? Would be interested to hear your thoughts…

[Niall C]

Philip


I played Erinvale, De Zalze, Simola, Pinnacle Point and George.


Simola was a bit like Pinnacle Point without the ocean. I enjoyed it but wouldn't hurry to go back. The other 3 were more conventional which is to say they were flatter. After one play I'd put them in this order;


Erinvale
De Zalze
George
and then
Pinnacle Point and Simola in a (lower) bracket of their own.


The order of the first 3 probably comes down to conditioning (Erinvale was easily in the best nick) but not sure what I'd think after a few plays. Overall I enjoyed the courses but with the exception of Pinnacle Point I don't know I saw anything particularly startling and that was less about the golf and more about the place.


Not sure if those courses are representative of the best of SA golf. Did I miss anything nearby that would have been better ?


Niall
 

[Philip Gawith]

Niall, i have not played all those courses so not fully qualified to comment, but a few thoughts:


- you were obviously close to Cape Town. Pearl Valley is higher rated course than the ones you played, but it is a housing estate course so not especially memorable. In Cape Town itself Royal Cape is a decent course with some interesting bunkering, considering it is on flat land; Milnerton is a fun links, albeit a bit messed up by selling land for housing, but sensational views of Table Mountain. Similarly Atlantic Beach which has hosted Open qualifiers, but also compromised by housing.
- I found bits of Simola a bit gimicky (fitting holes into land that did not work well) and thought Pezula was a better course.
- George is obviously close to the Fancourt resort which gets a lot of praise. It is a very beautiful spot, not sure the regular courses are that special, but the Links course, which hosted the President's Cup years ago is a pretty interesting example of a Whistling Straits/Kingsbarns type 100% artificial links.

[Niall C]

Philip


I didn't organise the trip and didn't have any input into the courses. Frankly my base knowledge of SA and SA golf being so low meant I'd nothing to add. I was quite happy to just go with the flow.



With the first couple of days in Cape Town being the Friday, when we arrived and Saturday, it proved too difficult to get a game near Cape Town before we moved to Stellenbosch on the Sunday where we had a game at Erinvale. Next time it would be good to play somewhere local.


We did try to play Fancourt but again, as we weren't staying on site we couldn't get the course we wanted (or so I am told).


Re Pezula - is that the course you can see from Simola and sits closer to the water ?


Overall I agree with your comments on the other thread about the scale of the courses being smaller than the modern big scale courses but that's what I'm used so was quite happy. Likewise there wasn't any obvious framing of holes to produce wonderful views but then again you couldn't help but get great views.


Niall