"The Ramp"-George Thomas, Welcome Home!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

This will be the last of the Riviera pictures since it upsets JakaB and SDPB so much.

However, I feel that if these two pictures don't show just how ridiculous things are at Riviera, then you aren't looking at them subjectively. This isn't bashing so much as it is really showing all that weren't there what the TV cameras didn't.

For those of you that are looking at the aerial photo in The Captain please tell me if you see this very important feature that has been revitalized for Captain George Thomas's homecoming.

The image is taken at the front of the "RESTORED" right fairway from Riviera's 8th. In my experience of playing several Thomas courses, I can't sem to remember ever seeing this important intregal feature in this "RESTORATION"

[JakaB]

TommyN,

You know I love you and your pics...without telling me to get a library card or posting an Amazon link...I would like to know what was GT's prefered method for letting a walker make a change in elevation...stairs or just a severe slope.  I see the ramp shown as a perfectly cute way of letting a member walk up the fairway without having a set of stairs in the shot line of someone who has already hit a bad or short shot.   Maybe when Amy Al turns 80 and she can't reach the fairway she will bump a metal wood up the ramp much the same way my mother would...no challenged golfer wants stairs in the sightline..hell maybe its even progressive ADA design techniques....GT didn't have these issues the lucky bastard.

[A_Clay_Man]

It looks like a future cart path or freeway. How nice of those boys to do the shaping! Maybe even a "Ginger" ramp. What highway does it most resmble to you?

[Tim_Weiman]

Tommy:

There is nothing wrong with your pictures.  They are embarrassing for anyone involved with the project, but fairly good in terms of documentation.

FYI, I've never seen anything like it on any George Thomas course.  Nor have I seen anything like it on a Tom Fazio course.

This is just bad work, no matter who did it.

[Bill McBride]

The photos aren't real clear on my monitor, but the abrupt changes in elevation remind me of Nicklaus' changes in fairway level at Grand Cypress in Orlando.  Probably the ugliest (and potentially most dangerous to cart riders) feature I've ever seen on a golf course.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

JakaB, Thanks, you have made me feel so much more wanted.

And in relation to your ADA comments, I had created this earlier last week, but was VERY hesitant on posting it in fear of being labeled "Anti-ADA" or just plainly making fun of crippled people. (Which of course is pure malarky) the point is that, (And paraphrased from a verse by Randy Newman) "Short fat people got nobody....."

Hope you enjoy the humor. There were several that got this in an email last week that did.

[SPDB]

that's pretty funny. good stuff.

did the area surrounding the ramp used to be the baranca?

[Richard_Goodale]

I think Mr. Thomas would have called the ramp an intriguing "ground game option."

[Mike_Cirba]

Tommy,

You kill me.  

Frankly, I'm surprised that an organization that is so famous for their "framing" wouldn't have come up with your idea first!  

Those hand rails blend in as well as the rest of the new features, I guess.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Sean, So much of that paticular area was wiped out in the great flood of 37', that I completely agree with Geoff (Only after discussing it with him many times) that rebuilding that fairway was very chancey. But lets just say that it was partially in the area of the barranca.

In truth, I would have rather seen them try to rebuild the huge dynamic sand hazard just off of the tee at the 12th which really wouldn't challenge the pros at all, but it would have the mindset of what the term restoration is all about.

The old area of #8 was more or less barranca level and they used to park a lot of the network trucks and stuff in there and green fence it off. In fact, I think they actually used that area a few times as their staging ground for the main engineering trailer. The trees were literally lined-up, blocking the right side and it was just a sort of sloped grassy rough area. Geoff maybe able to answer it better.

So, in answering John's question of access to the new fairway, I would think that doing something similar to the crossing of the same baranca at #1 or 11 would have been a better guide to follow. (Sort of a maintained walk through the rough)

Pretty natural eh Rich?

[SPDB]

At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite. I really wish that the barranca would have been restored. I believe that I can actually say this under the guidelines i have set forth for myself, because I have actually seen a Thomas-era picture of it, and have  now seen the modern version. From the pictures, the hazard looks something akin to a construction site. I am all for hazards that look unkempt, gnarly and not fun to be around. It is why Sand Hills looks so alluring, it is why I love the 16th at Merion.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom MacWood was talking of working-up a piece on the style and design of "The California Classic." Whether it was for an IN My Opinion piece or not, I don't know.

I cn say though that in it you will see a very rugged, natrural terrain that encompassed almost all of the So. California designs.

All of this, from what I have seen in photos and other reading material makes it seem to embrace the greatest hue of golden color and earthen tones, with fast and firm conditions being the norm. All's it took was a Great Depression and a World War to wipe it all out.

Thanks to Geoff, Daniel Wexler, and the Ralph Miller Golf Library, I was gifted with the greatest tools which to learn what golf once looked like in SoCal back in those days. Do I over-glorify it? More then likely, but I look at pictures of some of Billy Bell's most descript bunkering and I get a smile on my face. Hopefully the same smile you got when you saw that original picture of #8.

God I love this game.

Your mission if you choose to accept it is to now buy George Thomas' Golf Architecture In America.

[ian andrew (Guest)]

Tommy,

It looked like the pros all played to the right, is the right route an easier way to play the hole?

The post with the rails was the funniest thing I've seen on here in a while.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Ian,
The right side looks to be the easiest route on any of the golf course. The fairway seems to be just plain flat and featureless with a slight droop towards the left. I don't even think that bunker comes into play.

It is to my understanding that the only one that comtemplated going left was Duffy Waldorf who was having a very rough go with his game this last week.  Unfortuantely, I don't know if he tried it or not.

Maybe Geoff has that information.

[ian andrew (Guest)]

Thanks Tommy

Really liked all the photos you posted, very interesting

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I started thinking about this further, and maybe the powers that be want to use this for some sort of equestrian event for future Olympics? After all, they once did the equestrian at Riv in the 1932 Olympics.