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Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2010, 11:42:42 AM »
I think Doak has it about right (7 if I remember correctly).  An outstanding course that is a worthwhile destination.  

Simple ratings do not do the place justice however.  Pennard demonstrates that a short course on which it is difficult to lose a ball can provide a very difficult challenge and an extremely memorable experience.  I would love to play there a week in order to better understand the options for playing each hole.  We faced the same hole locations for three consecutive rounds and I still found situations in the third round where I was in a poor position without realizing my peril (and just as often good positions achieved through providence).

I thought the par threes and fours were outstanding.  I was not a huge fan of the finishing two holes based on three rounds at the end of a string of 5 days at 36 holes per day.  I do not think I can fairly evaluate those holes without having a better understanding of how I should play them.

I liked the par threes better than others have implied.  The second green apparently has some conditioning issues but I liked the hole.  Trying to hit the bank shot off the hill to the left of 11 was great fun if a bit severe for my skill level.  The hole is a terrific match play hole where Mark Pearce wound up halving the hole despite hitting a tee shot about 30 yards into weeds.  It looked like Conrad and his US opponent had a similarly adventurous match experience in the group in front of us.    I found the 13th to be great fun and a visual trick that still fooled me the third time around.  The 15th was a bit out of character but it was a very strategic hole that rewarded a safe play to the wide side of the green.

I liked the 4th, 10th and 16th of the par fives.  It was great fun to try and funnel the tee shot on the 10th around the corner and the approach to the back pin was probably the easiest on the green one one properly took into account the fierce wind and steep hill.  I used everything from a 3 wood to a half wedge for my approach depending on my success earlier in the hole.  I did not find the 16th green overly severe, particularly on a short par five with little in the way of hazards before one reached the green.

I think praise has been uniform of the par fours.  Unlike Ben, the 12th was my favorite - even though I performed very poorly there.  It is hard to imagine so much difficulty and decisionmaking could be packed into a 266 yard hole with a 60 yard wide fairway.  I also really enjoyed the stretch from 6-9.  All unique holes with great variety.    

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2010, 12:12:41 PM »
Ben,

On the Sunday afternoon on 4 I hit a driver which ended up caught on the bank of the OOB.  If I had been on the level with a decent lie I would have easily been in reach in two.  You're a mile longer than me.  Hit 3 wood (or even utility) to just short of the neck (there's quite a dide fairway only 10 yards short of the neck.  That'll put you in reach in two.  Is the green difficult to hold downwind?  I imagine so but it's a very long green so it shouldn't be impossible with a bit of skill.

Similarly on 16.  The hole is only 480 yards.  If a 300 yard drive leaves a downhill lie hit the ball 280 and leave a 200 yard second shot.  I still think these are two good par 5s.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2010, 12:34:42 PM »
Jason

Yes, that was me playing Conrad in front of you.  I tried to use the bank on #11, but the ball hopped over and I was left well above the green - heavy sigh.  The 11th is one of the great unsung par 3s.  The stretch from 3-11 is outstanding at Pennard and tough to match anywhere for variety, challenge and fun.  Still, because of the extreme nature of Pennard I can't see it being more than a Doak 6-7 (probably a strong 6).  The very odd thing is Porthcawl is probably a weak 7, but there is no way I would rather play it over Pennard.  That is the nature of the Doak Scale as it is first and foremost a guide to be used for recommending courses (or not).

Finegan selected the 12th as one of his favourites as you did.  What did you like about the hole?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2010, 02:03:43 PM »
My day at Pennard was one of ups and down. Highs and lows. A dramatic ending to a glorious trip.

I slept in at the Porthcawl dormey that Saturday morning until the maid knocked at my door at five of ten. I jumped out of bed and then tripped over my golf bag on the way to the door to ask for a few minutes to gather my belongings.  After a quick shower, I packed up my things and met my taxi driver, Chris, a pretty blonde gal from Bridgend who had ferried me from the Bridgend train station a couple of days prior upon my arrival from Tenby. I was feeling a bit pickled so I closed my eyes and semi-slept on the ride out to Pennard, waking to see the turn for the street that leads to the Mumbles. I wish I had seen that place. When I arrived at the golf club, still 3 hours before we were to play, I found the spike bar and ordered a bacon and egg sandwich, though when I asked him to add cheese, the barkeep looked at me a bit funny, but said he could manage that.  When my roll arrived I quickly grabbed hold of it with both hands, as I was in desperate need of nourishment, and when I bit into it, the entire sandwich burst like Niagara Falls, with runny yolk spewing down each knuckle and onto the table!  Ah, I'd forgotten they don't flip the eggs over here.  And the cheese? It was shredded, cold, cheddar on top of the egg and bacon - not what you find at Hardees.  No matter, it was delicious enough to help right the wrongs of the night before, namely the mixing of lots of beer, some port, quite a bit of gin and a good dose of late night bourbon. Why couldn't I have just stuck with, say, three of the four?  In need of some fresh air, and to air out the essence of egg yolk that still permeated from my forehands, I parked myself on the wooden bench up on the back tee at the first and watched group after group play away over the big brown cow that was acting as a cross bunker.



 What was really interesting is that all of these guys played their tee shots straight away, knowing that the fairway would feed their balls over and up the right side. They undoubtedly prefer to use all of the fairway when playing their second shots over the hill. I didn't see one tee shot in 20 start anywhere but down the middle and ending up on the far right of the fairway. Good players, happy players, all of them were. Still an hour or so to go, I decided I had to take a nap before we played. But where?  I strolled over the putting green and walked a bit down the hillside facing the 18th and 10th fairways and found a perfect 'nest' of long bent grass dipped into the side of the hill just perfectly, like a big papasan. This would be my home for the next 50 minutes. I set the alarm on my phone, then tweeted my whereabouts, hoping that if my alarm failed, Mayhugh would see it and lead the search and rescue. I was probably only 50 feet or so from the clubhouse, but in a world all my own over this hill with a gentle breeze and the occasional moo to send me drifting off to lala land. That was the nap of champions. Too bad I didn't know how to play golf when I awoke. Poor Bill McBride has been paired with me twice now in these GCA events and both times I have played like a beginning chop. But it was a very good day on the links in the sky and so we fast forward to the round, starting at the 7th.

7 is crazy beautiful. The castle, the sea, the sky, the pill below, the cattle. Everything is mixed in and that's sort of the feel of the whole place imo. It's a lot of something and it is so different. I had a rough time with my swing, that day, so I made Pennard much tougher than it should have been.  

I liked the bank along the left of 9 green so much I decide to play my nasty hook right into it on my second and sure enough it careened off of there just beautifully, leaving 20 feet for birdie and like that, two putts later with par in hand, Bill and I walked to 10 tee with our heads held high as Mo had arrived at Pennard just in time for the back 9 fireworks!

I must've hit my next tee shot about 350 and found the narrowest part of the pinched fairway among the heifers, but the uphill nature of the next shot makes you give it all back in a hurry as my second didn't have nearly enough on it to carry the mighty hill to the green.  Still, we grabbed another win there and now only 1 down we rounded to the 11th.

11 was probably my favorite par 3 of the entire trip. Just a simple benched green, but with a mean as a snake false front that grabs your attention when on the back of the green and playing towards it. Wicked cool.


12 was a fun short 4. I drove it very long there, only had to putt over the ridge, though blind as a bat, but still, its a putt, and for eagle mind you!

 My putt hit the electric fence post so I had to play again, yet I 3-putted for par and left thinking that hole was one I'd love to play every Saturday!  

13. Bill made a helluva great par! We're all square - at last!!

 The hole was visually just ideal. Very linksy looking.

The abrupt nature of the dunes causes me to have shaky chin when staring at them.

14. I know Bill found his tee shot in his bath tub again and I found a nasty sort of blow out bunker to the left of the fairway, littered with hoof prints. Extracting my ProV from that heap was taxing to say the least and I was beginning to feel defeated, in a bad way. Then Andy made birdie to go 1 UP on us and it wasn't my fault anymore!

15. 5 words. Andy chipped in for birdie! We're 2 down, next hole.

16. Heaven.


This hole (really all of Pennard, it just sort of comes to a head at this point I feel) is reason why we love and appreciate great golf courses. A hole, from the tee, where you have no idea whatsoever what to do with your tee shot! Thank heavens Bill was there to point us in the right direction.  A marvelous piece of earth this hole is laid upon so beautifully. I couldn't help but wonder, 'why do I have to leave tonight?'

17. Well we lost our match on the 16th, 3 & 2 so this was a fun hole, no BUDA pressures, so typically I birdied it!  A nice drive, a blind 150 yard pitch over a field of gorse and two putts. I sadly had to end my round here as I had a train to catch and still needed to pack my clubs away.

Pennard is the golf course that suits my tastes best. Porthcawl was grand. It was regal, it was stunning, it is a great links. Pennard is, in my opinion, what golf is mostly supposed to be, and that is FUN. Along with a good dose of mystery, eg blindness, to keep the pages turning. I loved it and I will return!

One tired dog...


A very memorable trip ends on a golf course that leaves me wishing I had her to do all over again.

Cheers

Eric
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 03:29:26 PM by Eric Smith »

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2010, 02:10:30 PM »
Ben,

You shouldn't be so harsh on the course, especially one so old, for some of the issues you mention. Safety clearly wasn't a big issue to architects all those years ago, or not as big an issue anyway, as some make it today. Perhaps we should all go back to wearing red jackets?  ;D

James

James,

I don't think I am being harsh about the course - I have given it praise as well as criticism 'nothing is perfect' - In the world we live in now there is so much power venured toward the victim if they are seriously injured after being hit by a golf ball. The designer if alive they are liable as well as the club. In those days when the course was designed there were fewer golfers - nowadays the traffic is busier and the distances the players are hitting the golf ball these day increases the chances of being hit. The potential lawsuits are huge that could bankrupt a club which I would not like to see.

I am up for quirkiness if it is safe and fair. Pennard has areas that is not safe and unfair. If this was recified it could potentially be a much better course.

As for the 7th and 8th they are both awesome holes loved them.

I would play Porthcawl more often than Pennard if given the choice by 7-3. Its a great Tom Simpson layout and the greens look more natural and visibile thant the ones at Pennard.

Cheers
Ben

Ben,

I just love the way you can see how a course can be improved, and often your observations are excellent, but sometimes I wonder if the changes you see are necessary? You said it yourself, nothing is perfect? And you say you are up for quirkiness if its safe and fair? Well I say if its safe and fair its probably not really quirky?  ;D

You are correct though, that H&S and litigation are major factors in todays day and age, but I start to cringe when a course that has been fine for many years needs to be changed. Yes, people might hit the ball longer today, but most of us mere mortals surely dont hit it that much further for it to be an issue? But yes, they are worthy considerations.

Lets quit with the arguing here!  ::) You can see improvements, and are only too happy to start discussing your ideas which should be encouraged more on this site! And last but not least, this course is in Wales, so I'm sure in your eyes it cant be that bad!?  ;D  

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2010, 02:34:10 PM »

Finegan selected the 12th as one of his favourites as you did.  What did you like about the hole?


Choices and challenges on every shot, exacerbated by the headwind.  The hole reminds me of great short par fours such as 7 at Sand Hills and 10 at Royal Melbourne West.  The biggest difference to my mind is the bunker short of the green and the unlikelihood of driving the green assuming the wind we experienced is typical.

Off the tee - there is substantial advantage to taking a far right line near the cliff.  That shot brings risk into play which is difficult to do given such a wide fairway.  Even if one hits it on the correct line - the pitch is challenging where one can more safely go left of the hole or go at the hole with slopes and bunkers punishing a slight miss.

If one goes left off the tee - the penalty is a blind shot at a very awkward angle.

Depending on weather and hole location I would expect to attack the hole in a different manner every day.

Also - the view is not bad.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2010, 02:43:50 PM »
Eric, thanks for the great report on our match.  We share responsibility for the loss as I too was playing like the fat old chop I am!  But Andy Levett really gets credit as he was 2 or 3 under in winning 14-16 to put us away.  And Peter held them together earlier in the match while you were recovering!  It was a fun afternoon indeed.   ;D

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2010, 02:55:40 PM »
the mixing of lots of beer, some port, quite a bit of gin and a good dose of late night bourbon. Why couldn't I have just stuck with, say, three of the four? 
Lightweight!  Some of added Pimms, wine (red and white) and single malt to that list!  And then got up to play Clyne at 8.30.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2010, 03:04:44 PM »
Guys

Did you know that 13 plays as a short par 4 off the championship tees (252 yards) which is across the valley which forces a carry over the big dune. With a green like the current one I would be happier if it was a short par 4 rather than a medium/long par 3 into the wind also the drive is more exciting! Also hole 12 is 340 yards of the championship tees. Hole 17 is 562 yards which takes the bottleneck of a gorse out of play - the tee shot is still blind :o the hole would be much better if they reduced the amount of gorse and create a large fairway with a bunker in the middle at 100 yards short of the green to make the hole more strategic.

Cheers
Ben

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2010, 03:19:59 PM »
Ben,

You shouldn't be so harsh on the course, especially one so old, for some of the issues you mention. Safety clearly wasn't a big issue to architects all those years ago, or not as big an issue anyway, as some make it today. Perhaps we should all go back to wearing red jackets?  ;D

James

James,

I don't think I am being harsh about the course - I have given it praise as well as criticism 'nothing is perfect' - In the world we live in now there is so much power venured toward the victim if they are seriously injured after being hit by a golf ball. The designer if alive they are liable as well as the club. In those days when the course was designed there were fewer golfers - nowadays the traffic is busier and the distances the players are hitting the golf ball these day increases the chances of being hit. The potential lawsuits are huge that could bankrupt a club which I would not like to see.

I am up for quirkiness if it is safe and fair. Pennard has areas that is not safe and unfair. If this was recified it could potentially be a much better course.

As for the 7th and 8th they are both awesome holes loved them.

I would play Porthcawl more often than Pennard if given the choice by 7-3. Its a great Tom Simpson layout and the greens look more natural and visibile thant the ones at Pennard.

Cheers
Ben

Ben,

I just love the way you can see how a course can be improved, and often your observations are excellent, but sometimes I wonder if the changes you see are necessary? You said it yourself, nothing is perfect? And you say you are up for quirkiness if its safe and fair? Well I say if its safe and fair its probably not really quirky?  ;D

You are correct though, that H&S and litigation are major factors in todays day and age, but I start to cringe when a course that has been fine for many years needs to be changed. Yes, people might hit the ball longer today, but most of us mere mortals surely dont hit it that much further for it to be an issue? But yes, they are worthy considerations.

Lets quit with the arguing here!  ::) You can see improvements, and are only too happy to start discussing your ideas which should be encouraged more on this site! And last but not least, this course is in Wales, so I'm sure in your eyes it cant be that bad!?  ;D 

Cheers,

James

James,

This is a constructive argument, like you know that we have in the office striving to improve a design, I am fine with Pennard as it is. It will take a while to get to know the course. I can’t help it that I can visualise what it could have been others can’t as they like what they see this is the same problem we have as architects.

I believe that Pennard could have been one of the best course, if not the best in the world if the potential was maximised. I know this will never happen because (a) cost, (b) the members like the course generally as it is – it’s a happy club proud of their course and (c) a certain visiting American will not allow for major changes on a couple holes on his beloved course! We can always come up with what ifs like I did one for the 18th at Cypress Point (which reached a member via GCA!)

As for Pennard is third on the best courses I have played in Wales behind Royal Porthcawl and Pyle and Kenfig (like Pennard does not maximise its potential with the quality of duneland it has!) P+K has better par 3’s and par 5’s.

As a designer we know that safety is paramount and combining it with quirkiness is achievable as you have seen it at Rutland Water. I have put things on that course that you would not really see on a modern new course.

I have played with young kids as young as 16 hitting the ball past me – its all about preparing for the next generation and keeping up with the times as well. The Celtic Manor is one of the longest Ryder Cup courses and Medinah in 2012 is longer even though they have shortened the 15th especially for the Ryder Cup. COME ON EUROPE!

Cheers
Ben

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2010, 03:23:48 PM »
Lightweight!

YES SIR I AM! I pledge to be a better pest next year and play through the misery, even at the crack of dawn.  

It was Sean's damn bourbon that did me in.  I try not to drink that stuff, but with the bar closed and you guys still rolling on well past 1:00, (heck we even got the Emperor on the phone at one point), it would've been poor form to not oblige!


Bill,

It was great fun, indeed!  See you in March.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 03:34:01 PM by Eric Smith »

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2010, 03:43:39 PM »
Ben,

A constructive debate indeed. Keep up with the entheusiasm, but dont be suprised when people dont agree with everything you say  ;D

Eric,

I think you may have been drinking a little too much that night? Emperor on the phone?


Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2010, 04:27:50 PM »
Ben,

A constructive debate indeed. Keep up with the entheusiasm, but dont be suprised when people dont agree with everything you say  ;D

Cheers,

James

Padawan

I am sort of expecting some people not to agree with me - is that the whole point of having a constructive discussion on GCA? everyone has different views which makes it more interesting.

May the force be with you

Jedi BB

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What did the Pests make of Pennard?
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2010, 05:55:46 PM »

Eric,

I think you may have been drinking a little too much that night? Emperor on the phone?


Cheers,

James

Ha!..wrong one Boony.


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