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ANTHONYPIOPPI

Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« on: September 20, 2010, 02:43:54 PM »
According to "The Evangelist of Golf," Seth Raynor worked on redesigning the fifth green at Nassau Country Club in Glen Cove, N.Y. in 1923. This article from The Brooklyn Daily Eagle shows that Raynor was there in 1914 expanding the course after the club acquired additional land. If Raynor did, in fact, lay out holes for the club, this might be the first time Raynor did design work on his own.

Anthony

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TEPaul

Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2010, 02:59:59 PM »
Tony:

Raynor had gotten involved with North Shore GC in 1914. I always had heard Raynor's first solo was Westhampton but I'm not sure of the date and year. But then of course another one on here claimed fairly recently that Westhampton was designed by HH Barker and Raynor only constructed it for him. That sounds to me like a one off of the same person's claim that HH Barker designed Merion East in 1910 and Wilson and his committee only constructed that one for him too. ;)
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Mike Cirba

Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 03:52:44 PM »
Tony,

Really great find...thanks for sharing it.

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ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 04:06:59 PM »
Westhampton has long been thought to be Raynor's first original design and I haven't seen any information to contradict that. Last year, it was also discovered, by the superintendent, that Raynor had done major renovation work at the Misquamicut Club. I think that was in 1914, as well. The Ross work at Misquamicut came a couple of years later when more land was acquired.

Anthony

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TEPaul

Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 07:31:28 PM »
Tony:

When one comes to understand and truly appreciate the incredibly close connections of the people and families connected with so many of these summer and winter clubs and courses up and down the East Coast back then and even in other parts of the country and the way Macdonald managed to network those people both socially and via business (Wall Street) it is definitely not hard to see why Raynor would wind up at those places even early on such as Misquamicutt.

It is probably pretty easy to see why Ross was brought in later too since that was when he moved to his farm in Little Compton, R.I. Nothing is far from anything else in Rhode Island.
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 09:10:12 PM »
Tony - we came up with this info a few months ago and I had gone out to Nassau to tell them about it

The Course Chronology:

Bendelow         6 holes      1895
Bendelow        expanded to 9 holes      1896
Committee on new site             18 holes      1899
Raynor expansion and re-do    18 holes      1914-1915 major change front 9 plus 15th
   Raynor’s 5th green ??
Devereaux Emmet              18 holes      1920
Herbert Strong   r - a3 w/George Low      1925 present alignment
Frank Duane solo                    1970
Cornish/Silva                          1984
Cynthia Dye - mod holes 3 & 4
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 03:39:21 PM by George_Bahto »
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2010, 09:11:36 PM »
A Raynor obit:

Seth G. Raynor         Nassau is listed!!!  ???????????
   
   The sudden death of Seth G. (wrong) Raynor proved a great shock to the golfing fraternity when announced from Palm Beach as the month of January came to a close. Mr. Raynor was a noted golf architect. The funeral was held at Southampton, L. I., January 27th. Mr. Raynor contracted pneumonia shortly after going to Florida to attend the opening of the new course of Paris Singer. 

   The Singer course and those at Yale University and Fisher's Island were the most recent examples of his work. Earlier in his career he assisted Charles B. Macdonald in the laying out of the National Links of America. Probably his greatest achievement was the construction of the course of the Lido Golf Club at Long Beach, L. I.

   He was also instrumental in the construction of the Sleepy Hollow and Piping Rock courses and the Nassau and Creek links. The Links Club course was also his work, as were the layouts at the Chicago Golf Club and the St. Louis Country Club
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2010, 10:29:12 AM »
George:

First of all, you're giving me a headache!

Where did you get that obit and the Nassau chronology?

In the piece I posted, it appears that the acquisition of 10 acres was enough land for Nassau to redo the entire layout. The club must have had some other unused land at the time.

Did I mention you give me a headache?

Anthony
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2010, 11:09:41 AM »
Did I mention you give me a headache?

Tony, one of the reasons I was put on earth 80 years ago was, indeed, to give you a headache - one after another year after year!!
 8)


the chronology was one I built

the obit?  just one of many - (I can't tell you everything  )

hah The article I have was also from the Eagle - I can't seem to post it though - but it is virtually, same - same

me
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2010, 11:16:58 AM »
BTW: I always thought Raynor just built the present 5th green ....  I was always a little suspicious about Nassau being his course for a couple of reasons:
* mention of Nassau in the obit    
* in one of the few letters he left or wrote to clubs about hole description, there were mentions of 2 -3 holes inspired by holes at Nassau - still haven't figured out which were the holes

I have an old picture of that green - was at one time the 4th - shows Kirkby vs Herreshoff putting in Met Championship finals - big ridge in the green and the railroad tracks behind the green - great pic
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 11:19:19 AM by George_Bahto »
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Mike Cirba

Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2010, 12:07:38 PM »
George,

HJ Whigham didn't happen to write that obit, did he?  ;)  ;D
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TEPaul

Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2010, 12:13:50 PM »
Michael:

I don't know if Whigam wrote that Raynor obit too but it's fairly common knowledge around Merion that he was seen trying to alter some original MCC meeting minute documents.
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2010, 05:47:10 PM »
when are you guys going to get over the fact that Charlie actually designed the entire Merion course  ?   :P    :P    :P
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

TEPaul

Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2010, 11:11:34 AM »
Georgie:

I assume those three emoticons mean you don't actually believe that.   ;)
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Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2010, 11:57:15 AM »
George, shouldn't Cynthia Dye be added to the timeline for the recent re do of the third and fourth holes?
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2010, 03:46:14 PM »


Keith - you are correct - I changed it on the earlier post - thanks

Keith - usually I think just about the original architect or occasionally one, maybe two who may have modified the course(s) early on.

The reason? - that's what my book(s) about - the original course designs of C B Macdonald, Raynor and Charles Banks

too much to work with beyond that - I'd like to think Club histories and historians of various architects would follow up

I have my hands full with these 90 - 100 + courses   :P  but, again thank you for the correction/addition
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2010, 05:18:08 PM »
Here is a bit more on the changes from the Brooklyn Daily Eagle.

I don't think H.J. Whigham wrote this one, so you guys will have to come up with some other lame excuse to ignore it.


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Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

TEPaul

Re: Seth Raynor, Nassau Country Club, 1914
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2010, 06:01:01 PM »
"I don't think H.J. Whigham wrote this one, so you guys will have to come up with some other lame excuse to ignore it."


An excuse to ignore what, Skeebo? A bit paranoid aren't you?  ;)

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