[JohnV]

Shivas,

By that logic, the guy standing on the first tee swinging his club before teeing off is practicing and should be DQ'ed.

[Mike Benham]

... The lone spectator in our match is riding in a cart and he accidently drives over the ball ...

And that is just one reason why most competitions don't allow spectator carts ...

[JohnV]

JVB:

This happened to me in the semis of our club championship:

My opponent bombs a drive 320 yards and is 2 feet in the rough. The lone spectator in our match is riding in a cart and he accidently drives over the ball but we dont learn that until after my opponent asks for a drop from an embedded ball.

He asked for and I foolishly gave him one club length...which allowed him to drop in the short rough.

I THINK I should have given him relief but he must drop as near as possible to the spot, not one club length. Or was he required to hit it?


PS: The golf gods did not like his drop, he made double to my par  

Bill, Rule 18-2 says that a ball moved by an outside agency should be replaced with no penalty.  But, Rule 20-3b and 20-3c can come into play.  20-3b says that if the lie was altered, he should have placed it in the nearest most similar lie within one club-length of where the ball had been.  Rule 20-3c tells us that if you don't know where the ball was he should drop it as near as possible to the estimated spot where it had been.

What happens when we know the lie, but don't know where the ball was.  We should estimate the spot and place it in the nearest most similar lie to the estimated position of the ball.  In other words, Rule 20-3b overrides 20-3c.  An example of this might be player B plays player A's ball from the fairway, takes a big divot.  We don't know the exact position of A's ball, but we do know the lie.  A would place a ball in the fairway near the divot.

Note that for 20-3b to take effect, the lie must have been known and altered.  If we knew the ball was in the fairway and a dog just ran over and picked it up, we would have to drop the ball under 20-3c as the lie had not been altered.

[Ken Moum]

If, conversely, you dig a trench behind your ball in a waste bunker, that's 2, same as if you did it anywhere else.

Unless, apparently, you are named Cink and you are talking to Slugger White, in which case you get dispensation to dig a trench with your finger, and go on to win the playoff.

K

[Adam Clayman]

So, John, Why does one drop from an embedded ball in the fairway, but, place one, that's been altered by an outside agency?(if it's original position is known) As in the case where the cart embedded the ball?

[Garland Bayley]

1. no
2. yes
3. no
4. If not, there should be
5. Lift, clean, and replace
6. Lift, clean, and replace
7. Match play loss of hole, medal play no penalty
8. Leave in no penalty
9. Yes, no
10. in
11. out
12. yes
13. The one with the nearest point of relief
14. It there is any justice in the rules you drop again no penalty
15. no, no
16. yes
17. yes
18. no
19. yes
20. play away, no penalty

[Doug Siebert]

12.   Your ball comes to rest next to a cart path.  You are a right-handed player and take a stance and realize your backswing will catch trees behind you.  You decide you will play the shot left-handed to avoid the trees.  Doing so puts your stance on the cart path so you ask for relief.  Are you entitled to the relief?  It depends on whether the left-handed stroke is really reasonable.  If it is, you would get relief, if not, you are not entitled to relief.  Rule 24-2.

So if you legally take relief and now are able to play the shot right handed again, can you do so?

13.   Your ball comes to rest on a cart path.  You take relief.  Which side of the path do you drop your ball?  You drop within one club-length of the nearest point of relief.  This could be on either side. Definition of Nearest Point of Relief

What happens if there is OB or water at the nearest point of relief (i.e., if you drop it, it will certainly go in there)

[Tim Bert]

JVB - re:#12.

If the left-handed shot is reasonable and entitles the player to relief must the shot be played left-handed after relief is provided or can the shot be struck right-handed?  Is "reasonable" entirely up to the discretion of the official?

[Garland Bayley]

JVB - re:#12.

If the left-handed shot is reasonable and entitles the player to relief must the shot be played left-handed after relief is provided or can the shot be struck right-handed?  Is "reasonable" entirely up to the discretion of the official?

Tim,

You mean to tell me you haven't seen a pro claim that he would be standing on a sprinkler while hitting his shot from a lie in 6" rough with a driver. Once granted the drop, he then hits lob wedge to 2 feet!

Of course he may play the shot right handed! The ball is in a new location which would may make the right handed shot the best option.

Is that not correct JVB?

[Mark_Fine]

If we accomplished anything with this thread, it maybe shows that very few of us know all the rules, even those that do admit there are gray areas, and that golf can be a very complicated game if played strickly by the rules (whatever they are) 

And I still think it is ridiculaus that TV viewers can determine the outcome of golf events. 

[Adam Clayman]

Mark,
 If this was to relate to the DJ incident, what this proves is, how foolish DJ was not insisting that the rules official be right by his side to answer his questions. The rules are easy but their application is complex. Their goal should be to have a balanced affect on everyone who plays them.

With the pros, maybe having the luxury of of an official handy, is one of the reasons they don't bother learning them?

[Mark_Fine]

Adam,
Your point is a good one.  I know for a fact (having spoken to a friend who is a USGA rules official) who knows the official who walked with DJ.  The official did ask Dustin if he needed any help.  Dustin's response was, "yes, I need help with the crowd".  The official went off to help with the crowd and Dustin just played away before the offical came back.  He doesn't mess around (which by the way I think is great for the game). Can you imagine if he pulled his rule sheet out and started reading it on TV    Next thing you know, the game will take seven hours to play instead of five or six  
Mark

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