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Tom Johnston

My (golfing) bride and I will be at Whistling Straits for the first competitive round (Thursday).  Do you GCA'ers have any suggestions or recommendations for particular holes we should look to watch, and what to look for from the golfers as they decide how to attack the holes?

Thanks!

Mac Plumart

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2010, 06:42:55 PM »
Brandel Chamblee just did a piece on the 5th hole and the risk/reward/temptation that this hole will hit the players with this upcoming weekend.

The hole looked pretty sweet!!

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Phil McDade

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2010, 07:38:49 PM »
Tom:

I have some suggestions -- I'll post something later tonight.

Phil

Phil McDade

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2010, 09:42:03 PM »
Tom:

In my view, WS is not a great course for watching a golf tournament, particularly a major where there are tens of thousands of folks crowding views. It is something of a difficult walk; this is pretty rough terrain that Dye created, with multiple ups and downs all over the course. It's also spread out pretty far, not condensed like a lot of courses, so you have to do a lot of walking to see it entirely. A few pointers and thoughts (from '04 PGA viewing):

-- All of the tents for food, merchandise and other PGA stuff sit on a broad, flat area away from the lake; you can't see any of the course from these areas. You have to walk down a concrete path to get to the course.

-- The course layout resembles a "T," with the 1st, 9th, 10th and 18th holes the "post" of the T, and the front and back nines running out from either side of the post. Dye also routed these holes in a classic figure 8, so the holes move toward the lake, turn away from the lake, then back to the lake, before the final holes for each nine turn inland and away from the lake. Also, an enormous, densely wooded ravine separates the two nines, and there is a long, rugged concrete path that takes you through the ravine from one nine to another. Each nine essentially plays out and back, so that when you reach the green of the 4th hole, for instance, or the 13th green, you are very far away from much of anything.

-- Eight holes (3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th, 12th, 13th, 16th, and 17th) play directly on the lake, and thus are the most scenic and perhaps most fun to watch. The 1st and 10th holes take you from near the clubhouse "out to" the dunes. The 9th and 18th holes take you out of the dunes and back to the clubhouse, each one skirting the wooded ravine. All of the rest of the holes parallel the lakeside holes on each nine.

-- I actually enjoyed watching the back nine more than the front nine; it seems more conducive to spectating than the front nine, for some reason. A fun place to watch is just behind the tee of the 10th hole (Dye's favorite hole on the course), where the drive is somewhat uphill with a bite-off-as-much-as-you-choose drive, and an enormous central bunker playing a big role on how players take on this short par 4.

-- One nifty spot I found to watch some play on two holes was a small knob of a hill directly above the 13th tee (to the left of the tee, if you looking down the fairway of the 13th hole). From there, turning around, you can see shots into, and putting on, the green of the neat little par 3 12th, and then the tee shots from the 13th tee to the fairway (one of those tee shots that makes one feel small and insignificant as a golfer, compared to these guys -- they make the terrifying look routine, but that's part of the appeal of watching it, for me. ;))

-- I also enjoyed watching tee shots from just right of the 17th tee -- say what you will about that hole, and it has its share of critics, it's an absolutely majestic shot from the back tees, with a volcano-like bunker staring at the golfer on the tee.

-- You can also get a good view of tee shots on 18, and shots from the fairway to the green on 18, from the walking path lining the right side of the fairway on 18.

-- I went down the #5, to see what all the fuss was about (it's the most criticized hole on the course), and regardless of its merit, it's a hard hole to watch golf, because it's nearly all surrounded by water and wetlands and is quite flat.

-- #6 might be fun to watch, if you can get close to the new green, nearly cleaved in half by an expanded bunker. I believe there is a path pretty close to the left side of the green there.

-- One word of caution -- the native grasses there can get incredibly slippery with thousands of people walking on them. I'd advise much caution in negotiating downhill walks on the grassy area; there were a ton of sprained ankles and mishaps from unwary folks at the '04 PGA.

Have fun!





« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 09:46:21 PM by Phil McDade »

Carl Nichols

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2010, 10:45:26 PM »
The only reason to watch on #5 would be to get near the tee and listen to the pros muttering to themselves about the hole! 

Tom Johnston

Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2010, 08:44:04 AM »
Tom:

In my view, WS is not a great course for watching a golf tournament, particularly a major where there are tens of thousands of folks crowding views. It is something of a difficult walk; this is pretty rough terrain that Dye created, with multiple ups and downs all over the course. It's also spread out pretty far, not condensed like a lot of courses, so you have to do a lot of walking to see it entirely. A few pointers and thoughts (from '04 PGA viewing):

-- All of the tents for food, merchandise and other PGA stuff sit on a broad, flat area away from the lake; you can't see any of the course from these areas. You have to walk down a concrete path to get to the course.

-- The course layout resembles a "T," with the 1st, 9th, 10th and 18th holes the "post" of the T, and the front and back nines running out from either side of the post. Dye also routed these holes in a classic figure 8, so the holes move toward the lake, turn away from the lake, then back to the lake, before the final holes for each nine turn inland and away from the lake. Also, an enormous, densely wooded ravine separates the two nines, and there is a long, rugged concrete path that takes you through the ravine from one nine to another. Each nine essentially plays out and back, so that when you reach the green of the 4th hole, for instance, or the 13th green, you are very far away from much of anything.

-- Eight holes (3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th, 12th, 13th, 16th, and 17th) play directly on the lake, and thus are the most scenic and perhaps most fun to watch. The 1st and 10th holes take you from near the clubhouse "out to" the dunes. The 9th and 18th holes take you out of the dunes and back to the clubhouse, each one skirting the wooded ravine. All of the rest of the holes parallel the lakeside holes on each nine.

-- I actually enjoyed watching the back nine more than the front nine; it seems more conducive to spectating than the front nine, for some reason. A fun place to watch is just behind the tee of the 10th hole (Dye's favorite hole on the course), where the drive is somewhat uphill with a bite-off-as-much-as-you-choose drive, and an enormous central bunker playing a big role on how players take on this short par 4.

-- One nifty spot I found to watch some play on two holes was a small knob of a hill directly above the 13th tee (to the left of the tee, if you looking down the fairway of the 13th hole). From there, turning around, you can see shots into, and putting on, the green of the neat little par 3 12th, and then the tee shots from the 13th tee to the fairway (one of those tee shots that makes one feel small and insignificant as a golfer, compared to these guys -- they make the terrifying look routine, but that's part of the appeal of watching it, for me. ;))

-- I also enjoyed watching tee shots from just right of the 17th tee -- say what you will about that hole, and it has its share of critics, it's an absolutely majestic shot from the back tees, with a volcano-like bunker staring at the golfer on the tee.

-- You can also get a good view of tee shots on 18, and shots from the fairway to the green on 18, from the walking path lining the right side of the fairway on 18.

-- I went down the #5, to see what all the fuss was about (it's the most criticized hole on the course), and regardless of its merit, it's a hard hole to watch golf, because it's nearly all surrounded by water and wetlands and is quite flat.

-- #6 might be fun to watch, if you can get close to the new green, nearly cleaved in half by an expanded bunker. I believe there is a path pretty close to the left side of the green there.

-- One word of caution -- the native grasses there can get incredibly slippery with thousands of people walking on them. I'd advise much caution in negotiating downhill walks on the grassy area; there were a ton of sprained ankles and mishaps from unwary folks at the '04 PGA.

Have fun!


Phil - thanks so much for the detailed post.  I'll post an update on Thursday night / Friday with my thoughts & observations.  - TJ

Phil McDade

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 06:54:50 PM »
Tom:

One other note: WS's golf pro said in the local papers a good spot to watch multiple holes would be the grandstand by the 15th green -- from there, he said, you can see shots on holes 11, 12, 15 and 16.


Jay Flemma

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 06:57:13 PM »
Brandel Chamblee just did a piece on the 5th hole and the risk/reward/temptation that this hole will hit the players with this upcoming weekend.

The hole looked pretty sweet!!



No...it;s the worst hole on the golf course.  Even Dye agreed.  It's totally fake and doesn't fit with the rest of the course.

Go to the top of the hillocks on 7&8.  Also on the back go check out the unique 12th hole, then 16 and 17.

Finally, the 18th and 9th are pretty much together so you can see a lot.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Phil McDade

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2010, 08:39:44 PM »

Finally, the 18th and 9th are pretty much together so you can see a lot.

The 18th and 9th greens are close together; the holes are very far apart, separated by that large wooded ravine. You can't see them both at the same time, unless you're on one of the hills of the mini-amphitheatre behind the 9th and 18th greens.


Dan Herrmann

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2010, 09:02:50 PM »
Phil,
Would you suggest wearing golf shoes?

Phil McDade

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2010, 09:48:26 PM »
Dan:

It's not a bad idea -- I'd really suggest a solid, worn-in pair of hiking shoes/walking shoes, of the sort you might wear on a wooded trail of some (not a ton, but some) difficulty. I wore standard running shoe sneakers, and wished I'd worn my golf shoes, and really wished I had a solid pair of hiking boots/shoes. It's a really rugged piece of land, in terms of just traversing from hole to hole and climbing up and down the small mounds and hills to get a good vantage point. Double socks aren't a bad idea, either -- but it also depends a bit on how you watch a tournament. Of course, I'm more interested in the golf architecture than the play, which requires a lot of walking.

I've walked quite a few courses for tournament viewing, and it's easily the toughest I've walked.

Joe McCormac

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2010, 12:17:31 PM »
I think they have removed trees between 18 and 10.  I think if you got yourself in the right spot you could see shots at 10, tee balls at 11, shots on 17 and shots on 18.  Moreover, it's a short walk from the clubhouse/entrance.

Phil McDade

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2010, 12:28:00 PM »
Joe:

That's good news -- I always thought those trees really were out of place on the course.

Joe McCormac

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2010, 12:39:56 PM »
I as remember, it may be that said trees were a bit closer to the 18th green and therefore, the 10th tee, but your point is a good one, completely out of place. 

I seem to remember some high "dunes" ground just a 100 yards or so to the right of the 18th tee.  I put that up as a pick spot for veiwing the holes I referenced before.

Tom Johnston

Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2010, 12:06:55 AM »
My (golfing) bride and I just returned from Whistling Straits and day 1 of the PGA championship.

We have to agree with all of Phil's comments.  A few thoughts - mainly elaborations on what Phil has already said.

- Golf shoes would be a good idea.  The terrain is challenging and the grasses are slippery.
- Be prepared either to eat a stand-up lunch or spend ~30-45 minutes going back to the central village.  Some of the best holes are at the extreme edges of the course, and it's a long hike back to the central area.

Spots we liked

- We enjoyed watching the approach shots and putting on #1 green and driving on #2.
- Approaches and putting on #14 - the knoll that Phil had identified on #13 was too crowded
- We liked watching the approaches on #6 - the defenses to this green are astounding - we didn't see anyone hit into the hazard in front / to the left of it, but it would be painful to escape.

Spots we didn't like

- It was difficult to watch golf on #5 - we couldn't get near the central part of the hole (due to the lake), and couldn't get a good sense of what the players had to deal with on their second shot.  [My personal take is that this hole belongs on another course; and I don't think I'm alone in this.]

Kevin Lynch

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Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2010, 12:22:10 AM »
My (golfing) bride and I just returned from Whistling Straits and day 1 of the PGA championship.

We have to agree with all of Phil's comments.  A few thoughts - mainly elaborations on what Phil has already said.

- Golf shoes would be a good idea.  The terrain is challenging and the grasses are slippery.
- Be prepared either to eat a stand-up lunch or spend ~30-45 minutes going back to the central village.  Some of the best holes are at the extreme edges of the course, and it's a long hike back to the central area.

Spots we liked

- We enjoyed watching the approach shots and putting on #1 green and driving on #2.
- Approaches and putting on #14 - the knoll that Phil had identified on #13 was too crowded
- We liked watching the approaches on #6 - the defenses to this green are astounding - we didn't see anyone hit into the hazard in front / to the left of it, but it would be painful to escape.

Spots we didn't like

- It was difficult to watch golf on #5 - we couldn't get near the central part of the hole (due to the lake), and couldn't get a good sense of what the players had to deal with on their second shot.  [My personal take is that this hole belongs on another course; and I don't think I'm alone in this.]


I wasn't a big fan of the "Central Village" location.  I guess I was spoiled from Oak Hill in Rochester, where the Wanamaker Tent was to the right of #1 fairway.  It was a great way to cool off and check in on some of the events going on the other end of the course.  Now you have to decide if air-conditioning is worth a 1/2 mile walk one-way. 

If you're lucky enough to get a seat in the top row, the Grandstand behind #12 is a great spot.  You can watch all of 13 (and putting w/ binoculars), and see the approaches come in on 14.  If you're good at following the flight from the side, you can also watch the long approaches on the 15th.

I will probably head over to #6 at some point tomorrow, especially if the move the tees up to tempt the big hitters. It probably will help to avoid the back nine in the morning as the Mickelson throngs will be out in force.


Tom Johnston

Re: Request GCA'er suggestions for watching PGA @ Whistling Straits
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2010, 05:00:56 PM »

If you're lucky enough to get a seat in the top row, the Grandstand behind #12 is a great spot.  You can watch all of 13 (and putting w/ binoculars), and see the approaches come in on 14.  If you're good at following the flight from the side, you can also watch the long approaches on the 15th.


The folks we knew who went on Friday spent most of the day right there and loved it.

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