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Ben Voelker

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The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« on: July 28, 2010, 02:12:32 PM »
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/golf/07/28/golf.spain.bullring.stadium/index.html?hpt=C2#fbid=2-uqq18rPsv

Interesting article about Spain's attempt to get the Ryder Cup in 2018.  It seems way over the top, but then again, I guess it has been done before.

It sounds like golf is going the way of the Olympics and the World Cup if courses are created for the sole purpose of attracting a one-off event.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2010, 02:47:47 PM »
It would not be unprecedented as a "stadium" hole in professional golf and embraces a strong Spanish tradition. I like it. At the end of the day if it is a good hole, how can the method of housing spectators be a major issue?

The Madrid course is more than likely to be built whether Spain wins the right to host in 2018 or not. I hope it does, from what I have heard it sounds like it would be a real addition to modern European golf.

Niall C

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Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2010, 02:54:05 PM »
I wonder if Robin can be persuaded to give us his thoughts on the design. Given that the course is a new design specifically for a matchplay event I would be interested to hear how that has influenced his design. Robin, over to you....

Niall

Mark Pearce

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Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 04:28:41 PM »
Here's an article from Sunday's Observer, with quotes from Robin:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jul/25/spain-bullish-bid-2018-ryder-cup
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

John Moore II

Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 04:35:34 PM »
Thats sissyness. Why don't we get real here, true stadium hole. Build one like this:



Now thats real golf. Lets get started.

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 05:01:59 PM »
When I saw the post, before reading the linked article, I did have images of a golf hole finishing in an old bull ring, like Sevilla's Real Maestranza, for example, and I thought, "wow, what a crazy (and interesting) concept."  I have to admit I was a little disappointed in the actual graphic. 

John Moore II

Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 05:23:30 PM »
When I saw the post, before reading the linked article, I did have images of a golf hole finishing in an old bull ring, like Sevilla's Real Maestranza, for example, and I thought, "wow, what a crazy (and interesting) concept."  I have to admit I was a little disappointed in the actual graphic. 

I was quite disappointed, myself. I want to see a hole built like a real stadium. Not some beat around the bush, college baseball stadium, with 10,000 seats or something whimpy. Build me a real horseshoe stadium that seats 90,000+ and give them all the free beer they can drink. Now that would make for some real fun. And by the way, I'm being dead serious.

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2010, 03:37:32 AM »
I suppose I should chip in here.

The concept of a 'stadium' effect around a tournament golf hole is well rehearsed and when it came to the design of this particular hole we have simply taken the idea and given it a Spanish angle.  The Spanish bull ring amphitheatre is a very dramatic, enclosed structure and we want to create that same, intense atmosphere for a pivotal hole at a Ryder Cup.  More than 50% of the enclosure will be temporary structures, so once the show is over it returns to a very natural looking landscape.  It's not a great screen grab in the CNN report, as it makes it look like a regular tournament hole.  Hopefully, we'll be working up some more impressive artists impressions over the coming weeks, once I've produced the actual design.

We calculate that we could get 25,000 people around this one hole, but the actual figure will depend upon the numbers allowed through the gate.  With only four games on the course at any one time during the first two days, gate numbers are generally reduced from the capacity one would allow in for a regular stroke play tournament.  We will need to strike the balance between providing an exciting arena for the 16th, hopefully filled to capacity at the right times and maximising the atmosphere around the other holes too.  There is no point in putting more people around the hole, as we'd struggle to get that many in place at one time and it would take away from the rest of the course.

The course is going to be built and it will be public.  Whilst the quest for the Ryder Cup is uppermost in our minds, it will function as a public golf course and will be tailored to that end in tandem with its Ryder Cup specification.  The Plaza de Toros will be a very exciting, temporary arena for a Ryder Cup, but generally speaking, it and the other 17 holes are going to be very naturally designed, with minimal interference to the existing landscape.  It's going to be a very different style of Ryder cup course to what you have been accustomed to in Europe, should Madrid win the bid.
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Adam Lawrence

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Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 07:04:49 AM »
Having heard Robin - who's one of the least hypey people I've ever met, the PR gene obviously went elsewhere in his family - wax lyrical about this project at some length last month, I am now hoping like crazy that they get the Cup... plus I don't like Golf National much!

The Germans are very confident also, though...
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2010, 07:22:56 AM »
The Germans are very confident also, though...

Aren't they always?

I agree, for one not prone to hype or self-congratulation Robin seems genuinely excited about this course in Madrid. I can't wait to see it.

Matthew Runde

Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2010, 09:13:40 AM »
I'll support it if the end of the competition features the ritual killing of Jim Furyk's swing.

John Moore II

Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2010, 10:26:11 PM »
We should build a golf hole in a place like Bristol Motor Speedway. About 350 yards from end to end. Build a 250 yard par 3, and play golf in front of 250,000 fans. Now that would be fun. Once again, serious as can be.

Alfonso Erhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2010, 04:06:16 AM »
Robin,

Interestingly enough, the concept of the bull-ring hole is not new in Madrid.

This picture is of the old 11th (no longer exists) hole of the old course in Madrid, laid out by JH Taylor in 1907. The hole was called "Bull Ring" and the green was surrounded by a six feet high barrier that prevented a running shot to be played to the green.

The hole was in existence until 1914, when the club was relocated to a different site.

I am almost certain nobody in your Madrid Ryder Cup bid team is aware of this matter, so probably you can surprise them with some valuable historical input!!!

Regards,


Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ryder Cup and a Bull Ring?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2010, 04:15:07 AM »
Alfonso

That's a great picture and thanks for putting it up.  Our interpretation won't be quite as literal as that, but i'll gladly pass on your pic to the Madrillenos.  They'll be fascinated.

Robin
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

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