Suspended Play because of Wind?!?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jack did not ground his putter before a putt for just this type of situation. He says there were several occasions where the ball moved as he was about to putt, but he was never penalized because of it. It seems the standard has changed from the good old days.

Garland,

Neither Jack Nicklaus nor Bill Campbell grounded their irons.

Are you sure that Nicklaus didn't ground his putter ?

Films of his play would seem to contradict your assertion.

[Pat Burke]

As I understood it, Jack did not sole the club on full shots, but did sole the putter.
Hubert Green if I remember did not sole his putter.

[Greg Ross]

Does it matter?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Does it matter?

Yes.

Garland's assertion would indicate that when Nicklaus learned to play golf at Scioto in Columbus, Ohio, either his dad, Jack Grout or the young Nicklaus made a substantive modification in his putting stance/position such that he never could incur a penalty should his ball move on the putting green.

Since Columbus, Ohio isn't known as a blustery site, that would seem to be a huge adaptation to make for such a rare event.
One that would defy logic if it weren't for the fact that Nicklaus didn't ground his irons, and in all probability, his fairway woods either.

Films of Nicklaus show him grounding his putter.

Hence, I wonder if this was a change Nicklaus made specifically for the British Amateur/Open, reverting to his normal setup when he was back on the PGA Tour.

[John Moore II]

Does it matter?

Yes.

Garland's assertion would indicate that when Nicklaus learned to play golf at Scioto in Columbus, Ohio, either his dad, Jack Grout or the young Nicklaus made a substantive modification in his putting stance/position such that he never could incur a penalty should his ball move on the putting green.

Since Columbus, Ohio isn't known as a blustery site, that would seem to be a huge adaptation to make for such a rare event.
One that would defy logic if it weren't for the fact that Nicklaus didn't ground his irons, and in all probability, his fairway woods either.

Films of Nicklaus show him grounding his putter.

Hence, I wonder if this was a change Nicklaus made specifically for the British Amateur/Open, reverting to his normal setup when he was back on the PGA Tour.

Greg Ross-See what you promoted him to do? Wow, he had to break out the green text. You'll figure out soon enough that trying to say anything that goes against what Patrick has to say is similar to trying to have a discussion with a sign post. It just doesn't get anywhere and you wind you going round and round. Patrick is the supreme master of knowledge of all things golf architecture, we are mere peasants to his greatness. 

[TEPaul]

Pat:

It has been mentioned for years that Nicklaus never actually grounded his club so he would never be considered to have "addressed" his ball (under the Rules).

I have no idea how true that was or whether he actually never grounded his putter as well which with taking his stance would've constituted "Addressing the Ball."

However, I really am surprised how many of those pros this week at the British Open STILL do not seem to understand that if they take their stance over a putt and ground their putter they are considered to have "Addressed the Ball" and that they can not get off the potential penalty hook if the ball is moved by the wind by just backing away. So many of them do not seem to understand the ONLY way they can get off the penalty hook for their ball being moved by the wind AFTER they have "Addressed" it is to NOT JUST mark it but to also LIFT IT.

I also think too many of them consider that they have taken their ball out of play under the Rules when they just mark it and have not lifted their ball. I also think too many of them consider that their ball has been "replaced" and is "In Play" when they remove their marker from behind the ball.

[Adam Clayman]

TePaul, JVB, There was a rules person discussing this during the telecast. If I heard him correctly, you have not addressed your ball until all the variables are set. In other words, one could ground their club, then take a stance. But they have not addressed the ball until until the stance is taken. Versus, how most people actually do it, where they take their stance and then ground the club. Is it accurate that just grounding the club does not mean you have addressed the ball and one must do both to constitute taking ones stance?

Or is "Hello Ball" enough? 

(Art Carney reference for those who are unfamiliar with the Honeymooners)

[Jim_Kennedy]

Adam,
Even though you haven't addressed the ball in accordance to the rules you would be assessed a penalty if the ball moves unless it can be determined that the movement was due to wind or some other agency.

[TEPaul]

Just a minor clarification to what Jim Kennedy said above----I'm quite sure he knows it but others may misunderstand it----eg WIND and WATER are not Outside Agencies; the definition of "Outside Agency" in the Rule Book specifically says so.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Corrected,  I removed 'outside' from my prior post.

[Anthony Gray]

  Last year we could not finish on 11 because of the wind.

  Anthony

[TEPaul]

Why did you remove "outside?" I expected you to remove "Other." By removing outside instead of other in the context of wind in the Rules of Golf I'm afraid you run the risk of seriously pissing off Mother Nature and most golfers and architects know that is a pretty dangerous thing to do. I suspect the consequence of your action will be that your house or your home or perhaps your pro shop will Inherit the Wind and become divided unto itself!

[Jim_Kennedy]

I removed 'outside' because that's how the decision reads: ".....wind or some other agency..."

[TEPaul]

As for Adam Clayman, he appears to be uselessly fumbling around somewhere out in the boondocks of Rules knowledge and application alternately taking his stance and grounding his club for no apparent purpose whatsoever. And if he doesn't quit it in our forseeable future and hit his God-damned golf ball I'm gonna slap him upside his head with a Rule 6-7 penalty!

[TEPaul]

Jim Kennedy:

While I admire your initiative for referring to some Decision, and also recognizing that all the Decisions are considered by the Rulesmakers and Ruleswriters to be part and parcel of the Rules of Golf, I nevertheless advise you to stick to the Definition of Outside Agency and not just some random Decision because everyone knows the Decisions and even the Rules are very poorly written and shockingly ungrammatical and such and that the USGA and the R&A are going to contract that writer supreme, Dave Schmidt, AKA Shivas, to rewrite the whole damn book to make it far clearer (or more clear or more clearer) for all us golfores.

[Pete_Pittock]

This is from golf.wrx.com and is attributed to Jamie Dufner, posting under the name Miss Piggy

just a note about the delay on friday, so everyone has a clear idea of what happened. not that it matters much now 2 days latter, but it clears my name a little bit

had a 10ft putt on the 7th hole, as i placed the ball down it rolled away aprox 2ft. At that point i called a official over to make sure on the rule. was told to play it where it was, remarked the ball. Went to put the ball down again, rolled away another half a foot. The official saw it this time and got on his radio to report to whoever in the rules department about what was happening. Told to wait for another official to come over. Tell the next official what had just happened, he then gets on his radio to report what has happened to who i assumed was the central rules office. He then tells me to wait while they figure out what they want to do. 3-5 mins pass, the 2nd rules official then tells me to putt. i take 30 secs to putt, and miss. Then i have a 6 inch putt to tap in, as i go to stroke the ball, it is rocking back and forth, i turn and ask if that is considered a moving ball??? He tells me to mark and then proceeds to blow the horn 20 secs later to suspend play. At no point did i tell anyone i was not playing or that i refuse to play in these conditions. just wanted to clear the air with the real version of what had happened, instead of what tv or everyone else may have assumed to happen. i would never quit or tell a rules department when we should play or not play. and i did tell a reporter that the conditions were ridiculous , bc that is what they were. hope that clears a little up to all that have followed or commented on this topic. all the best to golfwrx followers. jason dufner

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