Closest to TOC in St. Andrews

[Brent Hutto]

Which other course, if any, in St. Andrews or in Fife generally is most like The Old Course in terms of the greens and green surrounds? One of the most unique aspects from what I can see on TV is all that business with mounds and swales and valleys in front of and beside the greens combine with huge (really ginormous huge) expanses of somewhat flatter putting surface once you get to the interior of the double green sets.

Those long putts and funky ground game options look fascinating but perhaps the Old is the only place to find that kind of thing writ large. Lots of courses have semi-blind shots and fierce bunkers and enormous fairways. Is there anywhere else you could play in addition to The Old Course with that kind of experience within 60 yards of the green? With or without the double greens per se.

[Bill_McBride]

Which other course, if any, in St. Andrews or in Fife generally is most like The Old Course in terms of the greens and green surrounds? One of the most unique aspects from what I can see on TV is all that business with mounds and swales and valleys in front of and beside the greens combine with huge (really ginormous huge) expanses of somewhat flatter putting surface once you get to the interior of the double green sets.

Those long putts and funky ground game options look fascinating but perhaps the Old is the only place to find that kind of thing writ large. Lots of courses have semi-blind shots and fierce bunkers and enormous fairways. Is there anywhere else you could play in addition to The Old Course with that kind of experience within 60 yards of the green? With or without the double greens per se.

There's quite a bit of that on the New, and nearby at Crail, Elie and Lundin Links.

[Adam Lawrence]

I am going to get flamed to Kingdom come by Melvyn for this, but to me the key to understanding the Castle course is to see that it is a direct homage to the Old Course. It has huge width, but much of it is obscured from the tee; there is a lot of trouble in the direct line of play; the greens are large and very undulating, and the run-offs are severe.
I haven't been round the course for a couple of years, so I couldn't honestly say it plays much like TOC - but in conception, I am convinced it was designed to replicate much of the challenge.

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:

The Castle Course may well have been designed with that in mind.  I've said before that a lot of the criticisms of it [blind hazards, having to aim well away from the hole to get it close, unexpected bounces] could be said of The Old Course, too.

However, I don't think the short game shots around the greens are very similar at all.  There is a lot of short grass around the greens, but because the course was built on a sloping site, when you're off the green you are usually way below the hole ... you're putting up to something over your head that you can't see.  So, the scale is entirely different than The Old Course.

[Bill Brightly]

Along this line, if I am going to St. Andrews  for the first time to play TOC, what are the other "must plays" in the immediate area?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Adam

I must say you do crack a good joke – must be the way you tell them     as seems to have  little substance, well certainly when it’s comes to The Castle 

How it was


How it should be
                 

The Gates of Hades - think the designers needs to relook at TOC as I see very little of it in The Castle except The Links Trust


The Castle course how it was really intended, a Friday afternoon afterthought.

]

Melvyn