The most strategic ugly pond in the world.

[John Kavanaugh]

18th at Torrey Pines South.  It is so strategic it's almost just a wet bunker.

[MCirba]

Bruce Devlin might agree.

I'd counter that for most of us John, we don't have the length/wherewithal to consider going for that green in two so its really just deciding where to best lay-up, so strategic choice doesn't really apply to us great unwashed masses on that hole.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,


There are two tees less than 500 yards, one at 467.  I am not a long hitter and was surprised that the pond was blind.  That is one difficult lay up, or code speak for strategic.  Most of my playing partners could reach the green in two.


I'm just curious, because most critics haven't, have you played the course since the Rees renovation?

[John Kavanaugh]

One reason I find this pond so strategic is that it's an easy par if you find yourself wet in 2.  The hazard par is always a treat.

[Pete Lavallee]

It is still in play for mere mortals, especially when the pin is located front left, its Sunday position. You can easily spin an L wedge back off the little slope behind the pin into the drink.

[MCirba]

John,

I've only played there pre-Rees unfortunately. 

Is the 467 tee the Senior or Ladies or something that was added just to mix up the options?

[Kalen Braley]

Is the notorious pond on Royal County Down strategic, or more in the category of "why in the hell is this pond here"?
 
P.S.  As much as I hate the old "stick a pond in front of the green"....I think TP 18 is the only one that gets away with it because its become so iconic.  Even if replaced by a large deep bunker, it still wouldn't be the same....

[John Kavanaugh]

I believe the tees are color coded. The 467 tee would be the same color as the 14th tee used in the US Open. I prefer the term CisTee.

I don't know the history of the tees.

[John Kavanaugh]

That ugly ass pond on Pinehurst #2 got into the heads of my playing partners and me. Taking on more of the pond does provide a better angle. Being the only pond on the course elevates its strategic value. The course would be worse without it.

[Jason Thurman]

When you first see the pond at Lawsonia, it's up on the left at the bottom of a huge swale and you can't tell how much of the fairway it cuts across. If you assume it abuts or cuts into the left part of the fairway, you can be pushed to the right which makes the hole play a bit longer but also gives you a better angle of approach.


When it returns two holes later, it pushes you subconsciously to the right in much the same way that the short bunker on 10 pushes you subconsciously to the left. It's a bit like Pinehurst in that sense.

[Mark Bourgeois]

How about the one on 5 at Sunningdale Old? I crack up every time I read Ran's review of this hole's "timeless beauty" with "nothing jarring or out of place" -- then look at the accompanying photo showing that ratty-ass swimming pool of a pond !

[Kyle Harris]

I prefer the term CisTee.

This is the undisputed most brilliant statement posted to this forum which I have read.

[astavrides]

I prefer the term CisTee.

This is the undisputed most brilliant statement posted to this forum which I have read.

suppose mianne bagger, Caitlyn jenner or countless F to M's want to play from that tee?

[Mark Saltzman]

Swinley Forest has a pond. Never woulda guessed that...

[John_Cullum]

I always found the 18th at TP to be strikingly similar to the 18th at Atlanta CC

[Carl Rogers]

What is your opinion of the pond at Firestone 16?  Mine is jumps back & forth between .... Why bother with it?   or Yuck!

[Matthew Rose]

How about the one on 5 at Sunningdale Old? I crack up every time I read Ran's review of this hole's "timeless beauty" with "nothing jarring or out of place" -- then look at the accompanying photo showing that ratty-ass swimming pool of a pond !

The one thing I could never figure out is what is up with that long wooden railing that goes right through the middle of it? What's the purpose of it?

[GLawson]

My caddy in 2013 told me it was the first man made golf water feature in the UK.

How about the one on 5 at Sunningdale Old? I crack up every time I read Ran's review of this hole's "timeless beauty" with "nothing jarring or out of place" -- then look at the accompanying photo showing that ratty-ass swimming pool of a pond !

[Greg Taylor]

Having watched the WGC last night another vote for #16 being ugly and adding no additional value.


Out of character with the course as well.


Don't get me started on the 17th at RCD!

[Thomas Dai]

Just about any pond which is a forced or very near forced carry.
Atb